Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 10-18-2010, 06:52 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
ralphyost's Avatar
 
City: Cape Coral FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Say GoodBye
Vessel Model: 21 Mako
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 261
Fuel injection pump REBUILD

Looking for suggestions for a place to rebuild my fuel injection pump. Its a minimec pump off a 1982 Lehman 120.
The pump is leaking diesel into the lube oil, as is evidenced by the increasing lube oil level I measure when I change it. I have reduced the interval from 50 hours to 40 hours and its still exceeding the normal level.


One trawler buddy recommended Boston Injector. I called today and the owner told me my pump probably needs the valves to be replaced. Without looking at it, he ball parked an estimate of $900, possibly lower once he tears it apart.

Has anyone sent their injection pump to American Diesel (who will then send it out)?

Any any suggestions?

thanks
R.
__________________
Advertisement

ralphyost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 07:27 AM   #2
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,740
RE: Fuel injection pump REBUILD

If I were doing mine I would most likely take to a local pump shop (Acme diesel) and talk to them and make sure they were comfortable and experienced in rebuilding it.
They rebuilt my Perkins Lucas/Cav pump and injectors in the past and did a good job.
If I didn't like their answers regarding the minnimec pump I would go to a cpouple of other local shops that have a good reputation and inquire.
Personally I would rather stay local.
The exception to that would be sending to ADC if they provide that service (I assume they would).
__________________

jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 07:47 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 272
RE: Fuel injection pump REBUILD

I have used this guy for injector service. Also had a neighbor that had him rebuild a pump, he is close to the Galveston Bay area. Probably not local for you, but if you cant find anyone close its another option. *
Texas Injection Pump Services
3502 2nd Ave S,
Texas City, TX 77590-8008 (409) 965-8477 ()
*
troy994719 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 09:18 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
ralphyost's Avatar
 
City: Cape Coral FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Say GoodBye
Vessel Model: 21 Mako
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 261
RE: Fuel injection pump REBUILD

There is one semi-local place, almost an hour drive away. HOWEVER, a friend at church who has a construction business and owns several diesel trucks/tractors told me he took his injection pump to these guys and when he got it back, it didnt work ! Returned it to them and they made it good....but what a hassle.

So I am looking.....
Estimates are rangning from$500-$900 "depending on what they find".
Can U say Ka-Ching ?
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/39v6g8t">http://tinyurl.com/39v6g8t
</a>

R.
ralphyost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 10:11 AM   #5
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,740
Fuel injection pump REBUILD

Yes those are "normal" rebuild prices from my experience in both boats and trucks.
Yes it's a good bit of change but I can honestly say that after getting the pump rebuilt for my Perkins T6.354 it ran sooooo much better than before the rebuild. It was literally like a whole different engine.
A pump shop should have a hydraulic test stand that they can use after rebuild to test their work and calibration settings.


-- Edited by jleonard on Monday 18th of October 2010 10:11:53 AM
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 06:20 PM   #6
Guru
 
Daddyo's Avatar


 
City: Cruising East Coast US
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Grace
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,441
RE: Fuel injection pump REBUILD

I talked to Bob about this the other day and he said the parts are 600 labor about 400
Daddyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 07:13 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
ralphyost's Avatar
 
City: Cape Coral FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Say GoodBye
Vessel Model: 21 Mako
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 261
RE: Fuel injection pump REBUILD

Well then that about confirms it. Seems that everyone is calling for close to $1k to do this rebuild.
More Ka-Ching.

R.
ralphyost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 10:46 AM   #8
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,740
RE: Fuel injection pump REBUILD

One BU
Just repeat....
Boating is fun, boating is fun,
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 11:44 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
ralphyost's Avatar
 
City: Cape Coral FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Say GoodBye
Vessel Model: 21 Mako
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 261
RE: Fuel injection pump REBUILD

So much fun, so many BOAT UNITS !

R.,
ralphyost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2010, 03:32 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Chris Foster's Avatar
 
City: Anacortes, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Juz-B-Cuz
Vessel Model: 38' Rawson Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 278
RE: Fuel injection pump REBUILD

Are you certain it's the injection pump?* A leaking diaphragm in the mechanical lift pump can also leak into the crankcase -- and it's a lot less expensive thing to try first if you're not sure.
Chris Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2010, 04:07 AM   #11
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,537
RE: Fuel injection pump REBUILD

A leaking diaphragm in the mechanical lift pump can also leak into the crankcase -- and it's a lot less expensive thing to try first if you're not sure.


And a lot more common!
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2010, 09:36 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 272
RE: Fuel injection pump REBUILD

The Lehman 120 injector pump is not plumbed into the engine oil, it has its own oil supply. Thats a big downside to the 120 and 80, its a pain to change the oil in the injector pump. *
troy994719 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2010, 09:56 AM   #13
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,997
RE: Fuel injection pump REBUILD

Hiya,
** Yup, the oil in a 120 injector pump IS a PITA to change but there is also an advantage to the "closed" system.* Pressence of diesel in the oil as evidenced either by smell or increased oil level is detectable, as Mr. ralphyost mentioned.* I'm VERY tempted to drill out the drain plug, run a tap through*and instal a NPT fitting with either a barb and hose or a nipple extension.* Mr. ralphyost have you considered this and do you or anyone else see a downside to this?* Could POSSIBLY be done in situ but most easily done off engine.
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 06:55 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
ralphyost's Avatar
 
City: Cape Coral FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Say GoodBye
Vessel Model: 21 Mako
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 261
RE: Fuel injection pump REBUILD

When I get my injector pump rebuilt I am going to inquire about an easier drain connection that is presently used.
Actually I have developed a system to change the oil that is not all that bad. But it could be easier for sure !
R.
ralphyost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 08:16 PM   #15
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
RE: Fuel injection pump REBUILD

Quote:
RT Firefly wrote:I'm VERY tempted to drill out the drain plug, run a tap through*and instal a NPT fitting with either a barb and hose or a nipple extension.* ....do you or anyone else see a downside to this?
The main issue here is clearance.* The stock Jabsco water pump and its Lehman-designed drive coupler move the pump far enough aft to provide some clearance under the injection pump.* BUT-----* when the Lehman drive coupler fails--- and it will, it's just a matter of time--- it cannot be replaced and repairing it is a short-lived*temporary fix at best.

The solution is to dump the Lehman drive and Jabsco pump altogether and install a new, one-piece Johnson pump.* This, according to*Bob Smith at American Diesel who designed the original Lehman pump drive, is a far superior raw water setup to the stock setup.* But the Johnson pump, being one piece and short, sits farther forward than the Jabsco pump and it's outflow hose-- which comes out*the top of the pump and angles aft--*provides very little clearance under the injection pump.* If you have installed some sort of a drain device on the bottom of the injection pump, the Johnson pump won't clear it and you'll have a problem on your hands.

We fitted Johnson pumps to our FL120s some four or five years ago when one of the Lehman raw water pump drives began to fail.* While the clearance between the upper hose on the Johnson pump and the injection pump drain plug is minimal I figured out a way to drain the oil without making a mess so I don't find the minimal clearance a problem.

Frankly, I never found that changing the oil in the injection pump of an FL120 every 50 hours to be much of an issue at all.* It takes me*about ten minutes per engine--- well that's not true if I include the time it takes me to get around the front of the starboard engine to reach the pump--- and is a dirt simple operation so I've never found myself wishing there was a better way.

But I would be hesitant to modify the injection*pump in any way that could prevent you from installing the Johnson pump when the Lehman pump drive fails.* It's just a matter of time before that will happen.

*
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 10:13 PM   #16
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,997
RE: Fuel injection pump REBUILD

Hiya,
** I already have a Johnson pump installed and I've tried all sorts of cut up pop bottle/funnel/hose/tray capture devices to try to contain the injecter pump oil when I change.* STILL a mess and a PITA.* So, Mr. Marin,* what tecnique/device *have you found to simplify the routine?* Inquiring minds want to know.* BTW, you can change my injector pump oil any time you want.* I do have access all around my engine (for the most part).* Calesthenics-R-us.
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2010, 11:04 AM   #17
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,740
RE: Fuel injection pump REBUILD

Yes I have the same issue as RTF. No clearance because* the big Johnson (pump) gets in the way.
However if I ever have to pull the pump I'd drill/tap it on the side for a easy access drain fitting.
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2010, 12:53 PM   #18
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
RE: Fuel injection pump REBUILD

I use a short length of water hose, maybe eight inches or so, that clear stuff with the red crisscross "threads" in it, stuck in the neck of a small plastic juice bottle. The hose is a real tight fit into the bottle so I don't have to worry about keeping the bottle on the end of the hose. I cut the upper two or so inches off the top of the hose to make a trough. The hose has a permanennt curve in it from the reel it was stored on so I cut it so when the trough faces up the hose curves down.

To change the oil I drape a rag (we use cloth diapers on our boat, best rags on the planet) over the top of the raw water pump, remove the drain plug of the injection pump and immediately stick the trough end of the hose under the injection pump drain to catch the oil, which flows down into the juice bottle. The rag catches the oil that comes out before I get the hose in place and that's it. I used the same "tool" with the stock raw pump and coupler, too.

It's fast, easy, and no mess (there would be without the diaper to catch the first bit of the oil).

The hardest part of the whole job used to be getting the fill plug off the top of the injection pump. The top of the plug would "seize" to the pump body and with a twin engine boat there was not enough clearance to get a big screwdriver onto the plug on the starboard engine. For years I used several rather Rube Goldberg methods to get the plug off--- I was afraid of messing up the slot in the head--- until a couple of years ago someone on the GB forum suggested that I put an O-ring on the plug. I said I didn't think an O-ring would fit, the lip on the plug didn't project out far enough. He said try it. I did, and that problem went away forever. I can remove the plug with my fingers, now. Not having to struggle with the fill plug really cut the oil change time down --- as I said, it takes about ten minutes now.

I may well have been the only one on the planet who didn't know about using an O-ring on the fill plug of a Simms pump, but in case I wasn't, it works great.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	simms plug 1.jpg
Views:	126
Size:	90.9 KB
ID:	3293   Click image for larger version

Name:	simms plug 2.jpg
Views:	171
Size:	93.4 KB
ID:	3294  
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2010, 10:48 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
ralphyost's Avatar
 
City: Cape Coral FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Say GoodBye
Vessel Model: 21 Mako
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 261
RE: Fuel injection pump REBUILD

Marin
If you get your drain collection system in place and ready to go, then pull the drain plug BEFORE you pop open the fill plug, it will reduce the oil flow for you to minimize the initial oil spillage until you get your hose under it.

I dont use a hose but I do use a small funnel under it which drains into a clear plastic dishwashing liquid bottle. The bottle is marked all around with black magic marker to show the level of oil that is supposed to be in the pump.

I pop the drain screw off and can even let it fall into the funnel if I cant catch it. I dont spill a single drop. Then I open the fill screw at the top of the pump.
R.
ralphyost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2010, 12:19 PM   #20
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
RE: Fuel injection pump REBUILD

Per Bob Smith's advice I blocked off the stock side breather fitting so our fill plugs are drilled to be the breathers for the pump. So leaving the fill plug in place when removing the drain plug accomplishes nothing-- the flow out the drain is the same plug in or out.
__________________

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Perkins 6.354 Fresh water pump rebuild kits. JAT Power Systems 62 03-31-2016 06:18 PM
Injection pump question Fotoman General Discussion 55 12-23-2015 02:27 PM
fuel injection pump septembre Power Systems 2 08-09-2011 06:48 PM
Electric Fuel pump Bypass Mechanical Pump MauleOne Power Systems 9 08-01-2011 11:59 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012