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Old 03-06-2014, 09:38 PM   #161
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Al,

Your fittings likely have NPF or UNF threads. Both of these thread types are designed to work with a sealant. Some mechanics will tell you they've used regular old gas resistant teflon tape (yellow stuff) with success. This is not recommended because it risks breaking free. Liquid or paste type thread sealants are kinder to sensitive components down stream. Mechanics repairing injectors, fuel pumps and carburetors can tell you first hand it is not uncommon to trace fault in the fuel component to clogging from a piece of teflon tape that washed off the ends of the threads, clogging in the first tiny micron orifice it encounters, if not the fuel pump then an injector. Either way it's a costly repair. Liquid or paste type sealant won't clog. For gasoline or diesel, I prefer regular old Aviation Form-a-gasket Number 3 which specifically states solvent resistance to gasoline, especially on modern engines that use injectors rather than carburetors, and any diesel engine.

Permatex #3H, Aviation Form-A-Gasket is a moderately thin sealant, but forms a SIGNIFICANT seal. Apply to clean surfaces, and allow to air dry to a tacky surface before assembling (typically a few minutes). From the label: "For use on most types of gaskets, machined surfaces and screw thread connections of airplane and automobile engines. - Applied as a liquid - changes to a paste in a few seconds - Pressure resistant and leak proof to high octane gasoline, grease and lubricating oils (up to 400F) - Resists hot and cold water, anti-freeze, glycerine, fuel oil, kerosene, butane and other fluids"

There are certainly other brands of thread sealant that will work just fine, but I continue to use #3 because it has never failed me in over 40 years of messing around with boats, aircraft and cars. The main point I'm trying to make is not to use teflon tape . . . . . IMHO.

Hope this helps.

Larry
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:10 PM   #162
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Thanks for that, Larry! I had already picked up a fresh tube of Permatex 14 thread sealant with PTFE (teflon). Looking at the specs, it looks like just the thing for this application. Like you, I like the Permatex products.



I really appreciate your timely assist on this! Fuel transfer in progress!
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:25 PM   #163
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Thanks for that, Larry! I had already picked up a fresh tube of Permatex 14 thread sealant with PTFE (teflon). Looking at the specs, it looks like just the thing for this application. Like you, I like the Permatex products.



I really appreciate your timely assist on this! Fuel transfer in progress!
Al,

That looks perfect! I am about to plumb a new tank selector valve and relocate the Racor. I am going to try #14 and, I'll bet it will be easier to apply. Thanks for the info.

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Old 03-07-2014, 06:07 AM   #164
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My long term solution to loose fuel fills or dead O rings.

Remove the fuel fill from the deck . Purchase a 6 inch plastic removable deck opening,
or with Yachtbucks Bronze 6 inch deck plates, install .

Install a short nipple in the end of the old fill hose, and a std pipe cap on the nipple.

Be sure to run a flex web ground line from the nipple to the fuel tank.

Now even IF the 6 inch deck plate is lost overboard , water may enter the boat , but NOT the fuel fill line.

Those 6 inch bronze deck plates are expensive if you loose one!

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Old 03-07-2014, 08:40 AM   #165
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Tape or dope?
Look at this stuff, it is very good for fuel fittings:

THREAD SEALANTS

Or this, which I really like because it is a "universal" thread sealer that one can will serve every project that comes along:

http://www.rectorseal.com/pds-pdf/dsno5.pdf

You don't want a hard setting material and most of us who use that sort of product stopped using Permatex years ago because it is messy and not all that great for your application.
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:55 AM   #166
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Success! Today I finished the shut off valve change out and replacing all fuel filters. Those little boost pumps worked great as transfer pumps and moved about 30 gph. They also filled the role of boost pump to prime my primary and secondary filters and made that job much easier.

Those pumps aren't wired to anything, so I used a jump start battery to power them. Then when that died, I connected some unused wires from a nearby bundle to the ship's batteries. Combined with a remote start switch like this...



...I was able to activate the pump as needed to prime the filters. Next project will be to hard wire a 3-position switch in the ER for each pump...ON/OFF/MOMENTARY ON. This will make them available for maintenance purposes and as a backup boost pump in the event of a lift pump failure.

Any suggestions for a quality 3-position switch for the job?
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Old 03-08-2014, 01:04 AM   #167
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Here's a switch that meets the criteria.http://marine.gdcomus.com/marine_pro...PC_211168.html
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Old 03-08-2014, 01:33 AM   #168
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Spent most of the day observing Al working hard. (Watching people doing physical labor is my third-favorite pastime.) Despite the 63-degree temperature, he kept the sweat up. He tells me now the next battle is to work on battery connections. ... Al loves gadgets.
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Old 03-08-2014, 01:45 AM   #169
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My "auxiliary" fuel pump. Was part of a fuel polishing system, but now just used for engine priming and moving fuel among the Coot's several fuel tanks.

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Old 03-08-2014, 02:38 AM   #170
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It seems to me that if you have spooge in your tank, it will settle on the bottom, where any water will also end up. If your pump will not actually be strong enough to stir up the bottom you will not be "polishing" any fuel.

Diesel comes from the refinery with some water in it, then it gets handled, tanked, trucked, delivered and then it sits for a while, all the while gathering more water. It then gets pumped into your boat where it will likely sit for a while too. If you keep the fuel moving, agitated if you will, the water will stay in suspension. When it sits quietly for 24 hours or so, it settles out. To the bottom of the tank. It is the water in the fuel that provides the medium for the growth of biological stuff.

If our Racors are spec'd properly, the turbine part is designed to spin out the water. If you don't have a filter turbine, some water goes through your engine. However, having stated that about Racors, I have never read anything that proves that the system actually works.

Anyway, with all due respect, unless you have provided a pump that makes the inside of your tank look like a washing machine with the lid up, you are fooling yourself if you think you are "polishing" your fuel. However, if the small pump you are using runs 24 hours a day, you might accomplish something as the fuel never gets to settle.
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Old 03-08-2014, 06:38 AM   #171
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Any suggestions for a quality 3-position switch for the job?

Cole Hersee with an aircraft style switch guard .Marine not auto built to switch DC

Cole Hersee Co.

www.colehersee.com/‎
Manufacturer of a wide range of electromechanical components such as solenoids, switches, connectors and cable assemblies, protection circuits, alarms and ...



>When it sits quietly for 24 hours or so, it settles out. To the bottom of the tank.<

NO a fuel tank would have a sump to catch the water and allow it to be removed.

Built with no sump its not a fuel tank , just a box of fuel.
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Old 03-08-2014, 02:54 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xsbank View Post
It seems to me that if you have spooge in your tank, it will settle on the bottom, where any water will also end up. If your pump will not actually be strong enough to stir up the bottom you will not be "polishing" any fuel.

Diesel comes from the refinery with some water in it, then it gets handled, tanked, trucked, delivered and then it sits for a while, all the while gathering more water. It then gets pumped into your boat where it will likely sit for a while too. If you keep the fuel moving, agitated if you will, the water will stay in suspension. When it sits quietly for 24 hours or so, it settles out. To the bottom of the tank. It is the water in the fuel that provides the medium for the growth of biological stuff.

If our Racors are spec'd properly, the turbine part is designed to spin out the water. If you don't have a filter turbine, some water goes through your engine. However, having stated that about Racors, I have never read anything that proves that the system actually works.

Anyway, with all due respect, unless you have provided a pump that makes the inside of your tank look like a washing machine with the lid up, you are fooling yourself if you think you are "polishing" your fuel. However, if the small pump you are using runs 24 hours a day, you might accomplish something as the fuel never gets to settle.
It's hard to tell who your post is directed toward, so as the OP, I'll presume it's me.

I have no 'spooge' in my tanks anymore. As indicated in the thread, the tanks were scrubbed and the fuel polished by a professional service after my fuel cap failure lead to the water contamination.

I have witnessed water separation in my Racor filters and also found some additional water in my stbd secondary yesterday during its first post-contamination replacement.

I never said I was polishing my fuel with the boost pumps. I stated I was transferring fuel and using the pump pressure to prime my filters. The boost pump can push fuel to the high pressure fuel pump, but not beyond as I have no "polishing" valves or lines in place. The only way for fuel to circulate back into the tanks is to run the engine and the unused fuel returns to the tank via the return line.

Try this experiment at home with some diesel fuel and water. Place 12 ounces or so of clean diesel fuel in a clear jar or bottle. Add a small amount water, maybe a teaspoon. You'll see the water settle to the bottom. Shake the bottle and see how long it takes for the water to settle out. I think you'll be surprised how quickly the water reappears on the bottom.

FF, Thanks for the link. My fuel tank doesn't have a sump or drain, but it's still called a fuel tank. Of course, I'd prefer if it had a sump, but it's too late now.
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Old 03-08-2014, 03:41 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
Look at this stuff, it is very good for fuel fittings:

THREAD SEALANTS

Or this, which I really like because it is a "universal" thread sealer that one can will serve every project that comes along:

http://www.rectorseal.com/pds-pdf/dsno5.pdf

You don't want a hard setting material and most of us who use that sort of product stopped using Permatex years ago because it is messy and not all that great for your application.
Rectorseal is what I've used for many years where Teflon tape is not appropriate, and it's what I've seen the Propane companies use, and the Gasoline/Diesel guys, and the pro plumbers. I've never seen it harden to unusable in the can, and I've got a can I found in some old boxes under my deck that is at least 25 years old.
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Old 03-09-2014, 07:47 AM   #174
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Try this experiment at home with some diesel fuel and water. Place 12 ounces or so of clean diesel fuel in a clear jar or bottle. Add a small amount water, maybe a teaspoon. You'll see the water settle to the bottom. Shake the bottle and see how long it takes for the water to settle out. I think you'll be surprised how quickly the water reappears on the bottom.


While this is true , it is still best practice to SUCK fuel thru a filter or water coalesser , rather than pump thru an emulsion caused by the pump itself.
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