Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-15-2013, 12:20 PM   #61
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
... maybe it's a fuel-flow sensor.
Maybe it's a scuttling charge.
__________________
Advertisement

RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 01:08 PM   #62
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
Maybe it's a scuttling charge.
Good thing someone disconnected the wires!
__________________

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 02:06 PM   #63
Per
Guru
 
Per's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 613
clearly fuel is coming from the tank(s) in position 6 o'clock
the device could be a pump or perhaps it could be a vacum / air sensor?
if it is a pump and it is disconnected it would potentially explain why FW's racor's are not filling up all the way.
the other positions are:
both / fwd / aft / closed
i think no. 5 is a manual bleed pump, can you push it in/out?
Per is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 02:19 PM   #64
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
Shouldn't fuel pumps usually pull/suck fuel from filters rather than pushing fuel through them.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 03:09 PM   #65
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,179
Here's a repost of the stbd side:


Here's the port side:


The wires on the "fuel pump" are more obvious in this photo.

Now that I think more about it, why put a water sensor transducer inline on a fuel line. The water sensor must be that wired plug in the bowl. It only exists in one bowl on each side. The engineering drawing below shows this as a water sensor, but the photo cut it off at the bottom. I'll hook my jump start battery to it and see if it pumps. Thanks for the pic, RickB.

Looking at the port side, it looks like there are 2 #5 plungers, unlike the single plunger on the stbd side. Yes, Per, it is spring loaded and pushes in and out but it doesn't seem to vent.

I found this Racor Brochure online. I believe I have model 460 with the R60S (2 micron) filters. (pages 4-5). There's a pretty good cutaway view on page 4. The brochure lists optional water sensor and fuel heater.

Here's an engineering drawing that shows a vent plug like RickB described on the top view of the filter housing. I don't see that vent in the photos. Will have to look closer on the boat.



I plan to remove the selector valve on one side to determine its functions. I'll report back on what I find.
__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 03:27 PM   #66
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Shouldn't fuel pumps usually pull/suck fuel from filters rather than pushing fuel through them.
For a supply pump, maybe so...but maybe not so for a priming or transfer pump. Transfer pumps I'm familiar with push the fuel.
__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 03:34 PM   #67
Per
Guru
 
Per's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 613
btw, those filters are marked 01-09-06; perhaps time to replace those?
Per is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 04:13 PM   #68
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWright View Post

Looking at the port side, it looks like there are 2 #5 plungers, unlike the single plunger on the stbd side. Yes, Per, it is spring loaded and pushes in and out but it doesn't seem to vent.

Here's an engineering drawing that shows a vent plug like RickB described on the top view of the filter housing. I don't see that vent in the photos. Will have to look closer on the boat.
I am beginning to think those are not Racor heads. You are correct, there are no vent plugs visible where they would be on a Racor or Parker filter head.

I also wonder if, in the event the above is true, that those plunger devices are vents even though they are on the inlet side. Is it possible the PO fitted those vents(?) in the wrong passage?
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 04:26 PM   #69
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Per View Post
btw, those filters are marked 01-09-06; perhaps time to replace those?
Yes, but they have been great all that time. I have replaced the 2 on the stbd side and will replace the port side filters when the fuel is polished and the tanks are scrubbed.
__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 04:41 PM   #70
Senior Member
 
greysailor's Avatar
 
City: Matagorda Bay
Country: Republic of Texas - USA
Vessel Name: Salty
Vessel Model: 2005 Defever 44
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 100
[QUOTE=FlyWright;173338]Good question. When I changed the filters, I filled them with diesel fuel, then spun them on.

Howdy FlyWright.... Not to add confusion while you are working through other issues....But when I read that you pre-filled the fuel filters, I thought I'd offer this advice as I've been called a little anal about this kind of thing by my pals... I also pre-fill my fuel filters especially the ones on my larger engines that hold close to a gallon of diesel, to shorten the priming time. However, I have a pipe nipple for each size filter hub that I have to do maintenance on around here (bus, tractors, generators, boat, truck, etc). When threaded into the filter, it allows me to pour unfiltered diesel into the shell side of the filter only, ensuring any fuel getting to my injector pump is filtered at 2mic. You may already do something like this but just didn't mention it in your post....Just something to think about.. Good luck with your fuel project!
greysailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 05:39 PM   #71
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,903
[QUOTE=greysailor;173581]
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWright View Post
Good question. When I changed the filters, I filled them with diesel fuel, then spun them on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWright View Post

Howdy FlyWright.... Not to add confusion while you are working through other issues....But when I read that you pre-filled the fuel filters, I thought I'd offer this advice as I've been called a little anal about this kind of thing by my pals... I also pre-fill my fuel filters especially the ones on my larger engines that hold close to a gallon of diesel, to shorten the priming time. However, I have a pipe nipple for each size filter hub that I have to do maintenance on around here (bus, tractors, generators, boat, truck, etc). When threaded into the filter, it allows me to pour unfiltered diesel into the shell side of the filter only, ensuring any fuel getting to my injector pump is filtered at 2mic. You may already do something like this but just didn't mention it in your post....Just something to think about.. Good luck with your fuel project!
Probably talking primary filters which it's OK to fill from a clean container...but you are right to only pump prime all the way through the secondary (usually engine mounted) filter.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 05:50 PM   #72
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,179
Thanks, Grey Sailor. My engine mounted filter is only about a pint of fuel, so it doesn't take long to fill it with the lift pump.
__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 09:12 PM   #73
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,170
Rick:
I plumbed the day tank into the fuel return from the port engine on a gravity T, with a Walbro pump directly from the tank T'd into the return line ahead of the day tank. The tank fills automatically from the fuel return and when full, the fuel return goes to the main tank as before. When filling from the pump, overflow goes back into the main tank via the fuel return line. If we are sitting for 2 days or more with the stove on, the pump is activated to fill er up. With the second Walbro having failed, I need to run the engine for about an hour to get the capacity of 2 gals into the tank from the fuel return. If we aren't going anywhere, that seems like a huge PITA, hence the query about a different pump. I doubt the Walbro has more than 10 hrs on it, but it is dead
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2013, 07:34 AM   #74
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by koliver View Post
R I doubt the Walbro has more than 10 hrs on it, but it is dead
How high is the day tank above the fuel tank or return? It might be a pressure issue with the Walbro. A high pressure (relative term) Facet might work.

Or, to simplify life, get a DD filter priming pump for about $40 bucks and stroke it a few times whenever you think about it at anchor.
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2013, 11:05 AM   #75
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,170
Rick:

The top of the day tank is about 48" above the Walbro. The problem isn't that the Walbro is laboring to pump to that height, but that it won't come on any more. When it was working, it didn't sound like it was having any difficulty. Now it is not coming on. Yes, I have put a voltmeter on it, so I know it is the pump.
When I get back to town I'll check out my handy Diesel parts store for a filter priming pump. Thanks for the suggestions.
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2013, 02:52 PM   #76
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,179
I spoke with the fuel polisher last night. Estimate:

Scrub both tanks and polish fuel: $200 per side
Cut 2 6-inch inspection holes with 8 inch covers: $250 per side including parts

Total: Approx $900

His plan is to add stainless plates and hardware (including nutplate rings) with nitrile gaskets. (These are aluminum tanks. Here is the galvanic corrosion table.) He drills the bolt holes oversize to permit the nitrile seal to fill the hole around the bolts.

Sounds reasonable? Should I require he use aluminum covers?
__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2013, 05:21 PM   #77
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
That's less than a BOAT$!
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2013, 07:48 PM   #78
Per
Guru
 
Per's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 613
thats a very fair rate imho.
i did that a few years ago and think it was more than a BOAT but they also added a gauge so that I can check the fuel level at the helm.
dont know about the mix og alu and steel - leave it to others with the knowledge.

btw, here is the requested photo:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	roller.JPG
Views:	78
Size:	100.1 KB
ID:	22161  
Per is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 01:59 AM   #79
Senior Member
 
City: Pittsburg, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: NoMoBoat
Vessel Model: Trawlers
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 278
Al,

Do I get the idea that you have 4 tanks? Fwd, Aft, S/P?

This boat of mine has probably only seen, maybe 1 hour running per 100s sitting in the last 10 yrs. I get just enough sediment in the filters to know I need to have them seriously polished. Don't know that I would have the ports pulled and scrubbed though; having the large clean out ports is a great stress relief.

Can you share who you got the estimate from? I could barely imagine getting my Racors cleaned and filters changed for that price, but I redily admit to being in awe of your Gift of Gab.

Thanks Al,
__________________
JimS on the Delta
Delta_JimS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 02:19 AM   #80
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,179
Jim, I have just 2 tanks and have dual Racors for each engine. One sits in standby while the other does its magic.

The quote is from Cruising Seas Services. I'm awaiting another quote from Diesel Fuel Filtering. No sweet talking to get those prices, though.

I'm now expecting to move forward with this polishing job in about 2 weeks.
__________________

__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012