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Old 01-17-2013, 11:12 PM   #1
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Fuel Additive

I am going to get fuel this weekend but I won't be filling up. So I am wondering, can you add too much Stabil or other products to treat the fuel against water or algae etc. What would be the side effects?
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:17 PM   #2
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The additives we use have amount per x-gallons charts on the bottles. So it's pretty easy to determine how much to use for any amount of fuel we may be adding.

Depending on the additive, it can be important to use the correct amount and not more. Again with the additives we use, it states this on the bottles.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:43 AM   #3
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My diesel got Pri-D and Pri-ocide.

PRI Advanced Fuel Treatments


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Old 01-18-2013, 01:53 AM   #4
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You can be confident most additive makers will advise adding as much as they can. I don`t know about the product Stabil. The dose of a product I currently use, which I think includes an emulsifier, can be doubled if water is known to be present but I have also been told if you overdo it there is a gelling effect.
Another recommendation is to mix the additive into say 10L of fuel and put that in before commencing the main fill,to get good mixing. That might help when you next fill to catch up, but as I understood my diesel guy,the best thing is to add the right proportionate amount of additive each fill.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:27 AM   #5
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If the goal is to kill the bugs in the water in the fuel you purchase use a different type of bug killer on each fillup.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:06 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Slowboat 37 View Post
I am going to get fuel this weekend but I won't be filling up. So I am wondering, can you add too much Stabil or other products to treat the fuel against water or algae etc. What would be the side effects?
Why would you not follow the instructions on the bottle? It seems simple to me.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:34 AM   #7
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Anybody use Valvetech? It is in the diesel and gas at our marina.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:28 AM   #8
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Anybody use Valvetech? It is in the diesel and gas at our marina.
I generally use whatever is available wherever I stop for fuel. Sometimes this is Valvetech, sometimes not. I don't go out of my way for a specific brand of fuel.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:36 AM   #9
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I was told by the guy that clean my fuel cells (and has been in the fuel biz for several decades), to not use ANY fuel additives. Just put enough fuel in your tanks to use in three or four months. You don't always know what the fuel storage yards are using as additives and what you add may do more harm than good. I, for one, am going to take his word for it.

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Old 01-18-2013, 08:53 AM   #10
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I was told by the guy that clean my fuel cells (and has been in the fuel biz for several decades), to not use ANY fuel additives. Just put enough fuel in your tanks to use in three or four months. You don't always know what the fuel storage yards are using as additives and what you add may do more harm than good. I, for one, am going to take his word for it.

Tom-
That's what I have been told also...and figured out for myself based on all the fuel issues I deal with as an assistance tower.

The only problem with that way of thinking...it works well for us local cruisers...but I can see where someone may fill up with more than 3-4 months worth of fuel and might want a biocide if in tropical waters...

I'm not completely sold on lubricity additives as there seems to be a split on the real need for them....
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:15 AM   #11
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I was told by the guy that clean my fuel cells (and has been in the fuel biz for several decades), to not use ANY fuel additives. Just put enough fuel in your tanks to use in three or four months. You don't always know what the fuel storage yards are using as additives and what you add may do more harm than good. I, for one, am going to take his word for it.
On the other hand, my boat's owner's manual recommends keeping the fuel tanks as full as possible to minimize the introduction of water due to condensation. That's a view shared by many experts.

So - you choose one or the other and hope for the best.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:45 AM   #12
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I do intend to follow the instructions, I was just curious what would happen if I miscalculated. I guess I would have to be way off to cause any lasting harm. Price of fuel right now is $4.19. in Seattle at the marina I'm going to.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:36 PM   #13
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I do intend to follow the instructions, I was just curious what would happen if I miscalculated. I guess I would have to be way off to cause any lasting harm. Price of fuel right now is $4.19. in Seattle at the marina I'm going to.
The cheapest fuel is usually Kolvich just before the Locks. The also deliever home heating oil. Price is depending on the number of gallons and cash vrs card.

I use Power System 911 - red container sold at most automotive stores which prevenst gelling in cold weather, and absorbs water back into the fuel.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:02 PM   #14
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You guys have no imagination. There are many reasons to want to know the ramifications of over treatment.

Is is better to over treat or under treat?
I don't remember exactly how much fuel I put in and now that I'm back at the slip I wonder about the correct amount of additive.
I put in the additive but decided I really didn't want to fill up the tank after all.
I lost track of the amount of additive I was putting in.
I did it from memory and now that I reread the instructions I put in too much.
I don't want to measure, close enough is good enough - just want to make sure too much isn't going to hurt anything.
There was just a little left in the bottle and I don't want to save it or throw it out.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:18 PM   #15
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I'm not completely sold on lubricity additives as there seems to be a split on the real need for them....
The issue of lubricity becomes important if one has an old-generation, jerk-injection diesel like the Ford Lehman 120. The fuel injection pump plungers are lubricated in their bores by the fuel they are pumping to the injectors. (The lube oil in the lower part of the pump is there only to lube the drive mechanism of the pump.)

If the lubricity in the fuel is reduced, the plunger and bore wall surfaces are worn down faster, hastening the day the pump will need to be overhauled.

So based on the advice of our diesel shop and people we know in the marine diesel manufacturing industry, we use a lubricity additive in our fuel because they have all said that today's diesel, while it still has a degree of lubricity in it, does not have what it used to have and increasing the lubricity of the fuel is good for the injection pump and the injectors as well, which on our engine at least, also have moving parts inside them that are lubed by the fuel.

It is a constant topic of debate on boating forums with some stating what I have described and others claiming today's diesel has sufficient lubricity for the older engines. We've chosen to follow the advice we were given by people who work in the field of marine diesel manufacturing and repair and so use the lubricity additive in our fuel. I cannot state categorically that it has made a difference or extended the life of our injection system. But it certainly hasn't hurt it as our injection pumps don't leak down any more than they did when we bought the boat fourteen years/2000+ hours ago.

Whether fuel lubricity is as much a concern with newer engines or today's engines I have no idea. Presumably today's engines are designed to accommodate whatever the fuel characteristics are today. But, like my 1973 Land Rover that must have lead in the gasoline it burns or valve seat wear goes up dramatically, the FL120 was designed at a time when the lubricity in diesel fuel was quite high.

So we follow the advice to provide the engine with the lubricity its injection system requires. We believe what we've been told and that it helps. But if it doesn't, it certainly doesn't hurt.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:28 PM   #16
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That's interesting. Thanks Marin. I will call my diesel shop and see if they reco the same thing. What product do you use?
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:36 PM   #17
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We use two, actually. One is the bug killer Biobor JF by Hammonds. The lubricity additive we use is also by Hammonds. It used to be called Select3 but the product name was changed to Biobor MD (Marine Diesel).

Hammonds has been around for a long time. You can read about their products on their site Biobor Fuel Additives
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:38 PM   #18
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The myth about partially empty tanks is pretty well established...I just left a tank COMPLTELY empty for 2 years...no water...the other was a 1/4 full....no water.

There are empty tanks lying around my bosses salvage yard...empty...no water.

The slightest amount that MAY he present is usually handled very nicely by a Racor.

There MAY be areas or situations where condensation MAY reach appreciable levels...haven't seen or heard of them yet...but will pass that along when I state the above if someone provides it.

I agree with trying to improve lubricity in untreated diesel (my marina "claims" to have Valvetech ) just not sure about most additives as many claim a long list of improvements but ultimately independent testing has shown them to decrease lubricity.

Wish there was a biodiesel place close by...it usually gets good ratings as a small percentage additive.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:20 PM   #19
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For 15+ year the fullest the 3 tanks have been is maybe full. The middle tank I open and repair was empty for 5+ years with no water/moisture. So I think having the tanks full is a bunch of punk. Also in the color climates algae/bugs are not a big issue. I know of boats that have diesel that is 5+ years old with no algae/bugs.

Anyway, no water/moisture no algae/bugs.

Also added Power System Supplement before new diesel is taken on. But my main concern is moisture/water.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:27 PM   #20
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....as many claim a long list of improvements but ultimately independent testing has shown them to decrease lubricity.

.
Not the studies I have seen, including one posted to this forum a number of years ago. Most of the "name brand" additives work as advertised although the amount of lubricity they add varies.

However there were a small number that did, in fact, reduce lubricity. The absolute worst performer on the studies, to the point of being identified as an additive that could potentially damage injection systems, was Marvel Mystery Oil. It's lubricity REDUCTION factor was impressive although I don't remember the figures from the various studies.
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