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Old 09-05-2017, 07:19 AM   #61
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According to your first post, over a year ago a reliable mechanic told you the engine had a bad piston /cylinder. What was the recommended action at that time?
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Old 09-05-2017, 12:20 PM   #62
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bummer.

disconnect the shift cable and see if you can move the shift lever through the gears easily. make sure you feel it pass thru the detents. Then put it in neutral and see if the engine rolls over.

The #4 looks like it has rust, and thats not good. If the engine hydrolocked while under power it could have bent some connecting rods.

If you cant roll the engine over in neutral then you have to beat the siezed pistons out. Then if you have enough sleeve left to bore out its time for that.

Me, personally, I wouldnt stick another nickel in it. Replace it with a cummins natually aspirated. Way cheaper, rugged, and parts are everywhere for far less than lehmans. I am putting this one in my boat. I pet it everytime I am at the storage....



Cummins 6B5.9-M diesel
I think (hope) the rust on #4 is a result of my inexperience and some procedural mistakes. I had not fully drained the coolant prior to loosening the head bolts. I was reminded of this as soon as I noticed water in places it should not be. I then waited a week..........

As for the cummins - A great idea. I'll be hanging out a donations basket. Thanks for your other tips. Im going to be looking at the transmission issue this evening as I continue to dismantle the engine. At this point I'm just going to have it taken out for sure no matter what as AlfaMike suggests Im not sure how good a job I (or professional help) can do in the boat anyway. Also I want to change the engine mount, clean the bilge and find out what is hiding down there.
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Old 09-05-2017, 01:10 PM   #63
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MPL

According to your first post, over a year ago a reliable mechanic told you the engine had a bad piston /cylinder. What was the recommended action at that time?
I actually had two mechanics look at it. One said it may run forever as is. The other said I should deal with it immediately.
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Old 09-05-2017, 01:17 PM   #64
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Amazing you got it to run for all this time. I think it is number 6 - very well-known failure. Lots of information on that, number 6 fails and rubs on the cylinder wall, destroying the piston and the cylinder wall. I would pull that piston out, dollars to doughnuts its only number 6 and that's why it seized.

Did you call Industrial engines? They will sell you a long block and you get to buy it with Loonies.

You still don't know if its the engine or the transmission but its rare to be that. Better find that out first, the transmission will have to come off anyway although you can haul it out with it attached. Did it overheat or just stop? Yes, you can rebuild it in place but if you haul it up into the salon it will be much easier to manipulate. And, if you get it into the salon you can just slide it out the rear door and get it done in a real shop. Or replace it.
Loonies? What are Loonies? Also Industrial engines?
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Old 09-05-2017, 01:24 PM   #65
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The more common failure for an unexpected lockup is the dampner plate.

I researched this thoroughly and it seems to be pretty common.

Sure, if other symptoms other than the plate keep looming.. But usually a free turning tranny with good oil and an engine with no real symptoms, the the plate becomes suspect no. 1.
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Old 09-05-2017, 05:07 PM   #66
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A Loony is a Canadian Dollar, or Northern Peso if you prefer.
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Old 09-05-2017, 05:42 PM   #67
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well there are these loons too...

Imagine her crackly voice...
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Norman. The loons! The loons! They’re welcoming us back.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:25 PM   #68
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Could be a failed damper plate. The springs fail and get jammed between the plate and block. You need to slide the trans back to check it out. You just need enough room to get a mirror in there. If you have the head off and can't turn the crank I'd bet on the plate.
Well I got down to the boat and realized I had no clue about how to remove the transmission for an inspection of the damper plate. How would I go about "sliding" it back". I imagine it would have to be unbolted from both the engin and the prop shaft for any sliding to take place. I think Alfamike also mentioned I'd need to support it.

I also gave it another shot with a hefty 1 in wrench and bar on the crankshaft with absolutely 0 resulting movement. Thats after soaking the piston heads/rings in PB Blaster.

By the way. I am not sure what it means but I am also able to spin the prop shaft whether the transmission is in gear or not. Maybe that is normal.
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Old 09-06-2017, 07:49 AM   #69
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When I had my failure years ago my transmission was bolted to the engine bed not hanging on the bell housing by itself. I was able to support the bell housing and slide the trans to the rear. I was on the hard. I assume your trans is only supported by the bell housing. Yes, you need a way to support the trans and still be able to slide it a few inches.
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Old 09-06-2017, 09:41 AM   #70
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Remove two of the bolts and replace them temporarily with threaded rod and you will be able to slide the tranny back without having to lift it.
Will also help with reinstallation.
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Old 09-06-2017, 09:42 AM   #71
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Several engine guys said if it was internal engine stuff.....there was a high likelyhood I could get some movement of the crankshaft.

With the flywheel locked tight by 3 little pieces of spring....not even 0.000000001 of an inch movement.

As they told me, before starting to tear down the engine, check the dampner plate first. One said if all else is too much, just drill a tiny inspection hole in the bell housing and stick in a micro USB camera.
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Old 09-06-2017, 10:10 AM   #72
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MPL- since you have head off, take a measuring tape and measure how deep each of the pistons are relative to block deck. 1 and 6 should be identical. 2 and 5 should be identical. Same with 3 and 4. If any of the pairs are different, something broke regarding con rods.

Thinking drive plate like the others. Debris jamming flywheel.

What did engine do as it seized? Any change in noise? Any rattling or squealing?

Wipe a heavy layer of motor oil on the cylinder bores to limit corrosion til you can get this sorted.
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Old 09-07-2017, 12:19 AM   #73
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Well the saga continues.

Thanks to advice received here I managed to remove the transmission however I do not see anything obviously wrong with the damper plate. I have attached a few images and a shareable link with others if anyone wants to take a look. I guess my next step is to remove the bell housing to get a closer look. I don't mind because ultimately if this is a transmission issue then I'll still have to solve the excessive smoke issue which was the problem I first reported. So I think Im taking the engine out anyway or at least brake it down so the pistons can be worked in the boat if there is some issue there.

One thing I notices was that there is a little bit of oil at the bottom of the bell housing. I figured that is normal and lubricates the damper plate?

The other thing @psneed I measured the pistons and 1&6, 2&5, 3&4 were identical. At least with in I'd say a 1/16 of an inch. I just used a regular tape measure to check.

Also to answer your question, when the engine seized I was on the flybridge so I did not hear a lot. I first noticed that a drop in rpms, then things returned to normal for a few seconds exept for a large quantity of thick black smoke coming out the exhaust. Then the engine seemed to be dieing so I shut it down. I thought I shut it down before the engine stopped on its own. I was surprised that it would not turn over once it was off. On thing is my son though he had heard some sort of noise (as if gears were shifting) about a few minutes prior to this.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...EE?usp=sharing
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Old 09-07-2017, 06:02 AM   #74
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Oil leaking from the rear main seal is common enough that one of the rebuilders puts a disclaimer in their paperwork about it.
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:57 AM   #75
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Plates looks ok but you might as well pull to be sure. It will have to come off anyway.
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Old 09-07-2017, 02:46 PM   #76
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Might as well pull flywheel too after pulling plate.
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Old 09-07-2017, 06:18 PM   #77
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Have you pulled the starter. Could the gear grinding noise your son heard be the starter engaging then freezing up?
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Old 09-07-2017, 06:24 PM   #78
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You can get a perfectly good bore from a boring bar (with someone that knows how to use it). The big boring machines will get the cylinders perfectly in line and parallel, but it really doesn't matter in most engines. If the engine is apart, I'd do all cylinders the same. Besides, that's how engine kits come, unless you're going to buy one piston.
But the lock up damage may change your options. If you stay with the engine, you can probably improve the heat problem with the last cylinder by drilling a port in the block and bringing a small line 3/8 -1/2" from where the coolant exits the heat exchanger and put cooler water on the heat. Maybe to the head depending on the flow direction.
When working on a single engine under a hatch, you can put a beam across on rollers or casters, lift the trans with it and roll it back. Also, sometimes when doing the bearings and pistons, it's often easier to lay the engine on it's side when working on the bottom end. Also use a assembly lube that dissolves in oil for initial startup.
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Old 09-08-2017, 06:23 PM   #79
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Have you pulled the starter. Could the gear grinding noise your son heard be the starter engaging then freezing up?
I'll check this evening. But why would a starter problem prevent me from manually turning over the engine with a wrench? The starter is definitely engaging but the engine is not moving.
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Old 09-08-2017, 07:36 PM   #80
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Have you pulled the starter. Could the gear grinding noise your son heard be the starter engaging then freezing up?
I`d put a dollar on this being a possibility. If the teeth of on the starter have jammed with the teeth on the flywheel - this could cause a lock up
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