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Old 10-10-2015, 04:02 PM   #21
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Greetings,
Mr. F. I think I know where you're coming from. Start afresh with knowns so you won't worry about unknowns. I hear ya' BUT, I would suggest two things. 1) Have a Lehman mechanic give the engine the full inspection treatment. Compression, boroscope the cylinders and whatever else he/she can do to give you as accurate an assessment as humanly possible of the condition of the engine as it is NOW. 1a) Have all the peripherals (water pump, injection pump, starter motor etc.) serviced and/or rebuilt, give everything a nice coat of paint and enjoy.
OR
2) Proceed with your plan of the engine spending the winter in your garage and go through it yourself. Add in 1a) as above and enjoy.
All that being said, it is not uncommon for Lehmans to run for 10K+ hours with no problems. As to a re-power? Myself, I'd still stick with the Lehman.
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Old 10-10-2015, 04:28 PM   #22
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Larry M,
I'm glad you listed parts as a "rebuild" w new pistons is a lot closer to a new engine. With new parts like that a $10K rebuild sounds a lot better. Bore and hone is way different too. Thanks.

But Larry if you just rebuild the engine a lot of the propulshion system remains old. Tanks are then a question as many or most boats require one pull the engine to pull the tanks.
Actually I would spend the money on new tanks.
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Old 10-10-2015, 06:39 PM   #23
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Actually I would spend the money on new tanks.
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Old 10-10-2015, 07:21 PM   #24
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Barnacles,
That's what I did but on of my two tanks had started leaking years past. Was moving to Alaska. Wanted new engine, new tanks and rebuilt trans. On reflection now I see this clearly as an advantage for single engine. Affordability wise.
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Old 10-10-2015, 09:34 PM   #25
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Here's what the $10K gets you. I would do this over putting a new engine in with parts being readily available. With a new engine you have a running gear to mess with, engine mounts, wire harness, new prop, etc. The rebuild is a pull out and then drop in. Pretty easy to me.

Machine Work and Parts
Exhaust Manifold
Exhaust Elbow
Bore Block
Grind and Polish Crank
Reconditioned Connecting Rods
R&R Wrist Pin Bushings
New Pistons/Rings/Pins
New Main Bearings
New Rod Bearings
New Cam Bearings
New Cam Thrust Washers
New Front and Rear Seals
Remanufacture Your Raw Water Pump with Gaskets
New Fuel Lift Pump with gasket
New Circulating Fresh Water Pump with Gasket
New Thermostat and Gasket
New Valves
Grind Seats
New Injector Tips
Remanufactured Injection Pump
New Engine Oil Cooler
New Water Hoses (all)
New Heat Exchanger
New Oil Lines
New Starter
Engine Painted Red

That would qualify as a premium reconditioning job to me- oil lines/ starter/ lift pump/ exhaust elbow. I could see value in something that thorough.
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Old 10-10-2015, 09:43 PM   #26
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You should add engine mounts to that list. They are only good for about 10 years. In some cases less.
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Old 10-10-2015, 09:52 PM   #27
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You should add engine mounts to that list. They are only good for about 10 years. In some cases less.
Not necessarily. Our boat still had its original mounts when we bought it. So they were 25 years old at that point. The engine surveyor as well as the friend we took with us to California to check out the boat and who until his retirement a few years ago was the head of the engineering department at Alaska Marine Diesel aka Northern Lights/Lugger said they were getting tired but were still serviceable.

Five years later we had the mounts changed. The diesel shop that did the work said the new ones would probably be good for 25-30 years. That was 12 yeaes ago and the mounts still look the same and have (to the eye) the same metal to metal clearance they had when they were installed.
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Old 10-10-2015, 10:12 PM   #28
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Not necessarily. Our boat still had its original mounts when we bought it. So they were 25 years old at that point. The engine surveyor as well as the friend we took with us to California to check out the boat and who until his retirement a few years ago was the head of the engineering department at Alaska Marine Diesel aka Northern Lights/Lugger said they were getting tired but were still serviceable.

Five years later we had the mounts changed. The diesel shop that did the work said the new ones would probably be good for 25-30 years. That was 12 yeaes ago and the mounts still look the same and have (to the eye) the same metal to metal clearance they had when they were installed.

Yeah, looking at them, that's a definitive test.

My experts would beg to differ with yours.
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Old 10-10-2015, 10:34 PM   #29
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The soft Yanmar rubber mounts need changing every several years or even annually. According to Yanmar 10 years ago.
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Old 10-11-2015, 12:20 AM   #30
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Surely you can renew peripherals without pulling the engine out. I can`t see the point in fixing things which are not broken, but if you pull the engine to clean/paint the bilge I guess rebuilding it while it`s out makes some sense, as does doing the tanks. Could depend how long you plan keeping the boat, your usage, and where you think the existing engine, and the tanks, are in remaining life expectancy.
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Old 10-11-2015, 02:53 AM   #31
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Yeah, looking at them, that's a definitive test.

My experts would beg to differ with yours.
The mounts on an FL120 are shot when the rubber collapses to the point of metal to metal contact. This is easily discernible by eye. I don't know about the mounts used on other engine types.

One of the "experts" who explained to me how to judge the mounts on an FL120 and also told me the average life expectancy of these mounts is Bob Smith of American Diesel, formerly of Lehman. My guess is that he knows just a wee bit more about these engines than pretty much anyone else.

Although he does still (I assume) recommend adding Marvel Mystery Oil to diesel fuel to increase the lubricity when studies of fuel additives by the truckng industry show that MMO significantly decreases the lubricity of diesel fuel. So maybe he's not quite the expert he's believed to be. Still, I think I'd be inclined to take his advice about FL120 engine mounts over anyone else's. He's certainly proved to be right on the money with the other suggestions he's given me on how to improve our engines.
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Old 10-11-2015, 07:50 AM   #32
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"So at least I have 3,500 hours. Not that much but I wouldn't mind having a the job job for peace of mind if it's not too expensive."

Hire someone to do a proper compression test.

If its fine , have the injectors tested and rebuilt if required.

When its running again have the valves adjusted.

Keep the anti freez fresh , change the oil on run time OR calendar time , which ever is shorter.

DONE.
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Old 10-11-2015, 08:33 AM   #33
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One of the "experts" who explained to me how to judge the mounts on an FL120 and also told me the average life expectancy of these mounts is Bob Smith of American Diesel, formerly of Lehman. My guess is that he knows just a wee bit more about these engines than pretty much anyone else.
In that case I'll have to amend my statement. My experts would disagree with your mechanic.
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Old 10-11-2015, 10:36 AM   #34
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Mechanics are mainly changers of parts. They learn mechanics by doing mechanical work and/or what the boss says to do.

Engineers however design parts and study physics, chemistry, and many other elements of engineering. They would be most likely to know how an engine mount works and the signs of breakdown or failure. The engine manufacturers hire and have access to engineers. They determine maint schedules and anylize oils and other such things. Engineers will know about engine mounts and their knowledge is acessible trough manufacturers.

Mechanics have opinions much like TF members and many TF members are better educated than mechanics. Lehman has never built engines and probably only hires engineers as consultants to solve specific problems. The MMO is a good example. It's a seat of the pants knee jerk reaction to a problem not based on chemestry or engineering.

Mechanics are just mechanics and are good (very good) at exchanging parts but if you need to find out what oil to use, how much load at what rpm to employ one needs to access the expertise of an engineer. And engineers are accessible mostly through engine manufacturers. Or in the case of engine mounts .. engine mount manufacturers.
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Old 10-11-2015, 04:11 PM   #35
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.

Mechanics are just mechanics and are good (very good) at exchanging parts but if you need to find out what oil to use, how much load at what rpm to employ one needs to access the expertise of an engineer. And engineers are accessible mostly through engine manufacturers. Or in the case of engine mounts .. engine mount manufacturers.

Ouch Eric!! Not all of us "mechanics" are parts changers !! Some of us study how the system operates and make an informed failure analysis based on facts. Oil sampling, compression tests, voltage checks and other available tests allow some of us to pinpoint a cause of failure and occasionally improve on an original system to extend the expected service life in the future. Honestly though- a large percentage of failures are the result of an incompetent prior repair. Many of the remaining break downs are due to neglected maintenance or damaged caused by an operator. And in the end- almost everything on your boat, car or airplane is ultimately still a wear item. From the door latch to the water pump. Mostly the good techs are good guys. Being honest from the start MAKES you improve. You have to live with your mistakes .


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Old 10-11-2015, 04:27 PM   #36
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The tests I can think of to determine if anything has problems are:

hot idle oil pressure
Compression
Bore scope
oil assay


After doing those you will have some concrete information on which to base your decision.
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Old 10-11-2015, 07:54 PM   #37
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Forklift,
Yeah .. Sorry.
Lots of mechanics get into it far more than the average dude. My last job was truck driver so I'm no big shot either. But there's a lot of mechanical issues that engineers are best equiped to deal with. Like how to run an engine and what oil to use.

Didn't you talk about moving up here to the PNW?
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Old 10-11-2015, 10:50 PM   #38
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I did. Looks like that's not gonna happen. It's complicated...


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