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Old 11-19-2013, 06:38 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Camano 31 View Post
Here's an link with an not so happy camper. A Precautionary Note on Fischer Panda Generators
Quote:
I installed a Fisher Panda 4.2 KW raw water cooled......
I stopped reading there
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:43 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Would someone, anybody, please chime in who has an FP that has been in routine service for more than 8 years. If so, please share your experiences.
Heres one that is 7 years old
Quote:
My Gen Set is six years old (2006) and I can tell you that my FP Mini 8 with its Kabota engine is performing well....
Fischer Panda Generators. - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
Logic says that a business that has been in business for 25 years and is supplying to the US military must be doing something right and in that time frame will also have some failures.

Unfortunately, the way the internet works, you usually only hear about the failures.
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:49 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Parmenter View Post
Heres one that is 7 years old


Logic says that a business that has been in business for 25 years and is supplying to the US military must be doing something right and in that time frame will also have some failures.

Unfortunately, the way the internet works, you usually only hear about the failures.
better read more US Defense news....after 23 years with them...you better use a better standard...
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:29 PM   #64
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It occurred to me to check a source with more international cruisers than this forum may ever eventually attract. The reviews are much the same there too with a few supporters but at least a Panda Service factory representative is posting there. Perhaps he can give you the information you seek?

Problem with Fisher Panda 4200SC - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Fischer Panda Generators. - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Fisher Panda Rebuilt - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Fischer-Panda Generators - Experience? - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Is 3.5kw Generator OK for a 16,000btu AC? - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Fisher Panda Generator - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Need Help! Fischer Panda Generator - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

120volt Panda Generator Problems - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

DC Generator - The Smart Way to Go - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Problem with Fisher Panda 4200SC - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

fisher panda genset - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

...and at boatdiesel.com

http://boatdiesel.com/Forums/index.c...5&Forum_ID=712

and of course this one....

A Precautionary Note on Fischer Panda Generators - SailNet Community

But then again, it could just be a conspiracy to hide the truth about what great units they really are?
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:59 PM   #65
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Craig, I for one would be interested if you were to do the same type search on problems with Northern Lights generators. Nothings perfect, so there must be some disgruntled customers out there.
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:24 PM   #66
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Lots of links
Can you tell me how many of those are repeats of the same story?
Can you tell me how many of those are for the FRESH water cooled models?

I acknowledge that the salt water cooled models had issues
The one I have purchased is not a salt water cooled model.

Thanks

add: when we have ascertained how many FRESH water cooled models have had problems Vs quantity sold, then and only then will we have some reasonably helpful data.

If its 3 out of 10 sold I admit that aint good

if its 3 out of 1000 sold I am not concerned.
Especially as a lot of those articles also made mention of poor installation by the owner.
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:52 PM   #67
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Craig, I for one would be interested if you were to do the same type search on problems with Northern Lights generators. Nothings perfect, so there must be some disgruntled customers out there.
"Like minds..." and all that Don was wondering the same so this is what I found.

Northern Lights Complaint - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

New Generator Needed - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Those two are kinda the Yin and the Yang so to speak at that forum.

http://boatdiesel.com/Forums/index.c...5&Forum_ID=179

Plenty of good reading as always at that forum on the subject.

BoaterEd - Northern Lights Generator Voltage

Northern Lights Generator Problem

Mind you neither of my posts where scientific or exhaustive by any means however a sampling of the threads I checked about NL gen-set issues seems largely operator error/owner abuse. Failure to change impellers and such, not premature failure or design related. The final link in my previous post is most telling regarding this famous "lifetime warranty" offered by FP.

I agree that no product is perfect but the issue with the FP unit and many other units is one of scale. Not all things scale down well and that's a fact you cannot escape IMO. When you stick a heat generating device of any kind inside a sound shield you will eventually have issues again this is only my opinion and not to be confused with fact. I'm sure the FP could be a fine choice if a person was willing to maintain them well and not try to use them for daily use.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:03 PM   #68
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Can you tell me how many of those are repeats of the same story? None that I'm aware of
Can you tell me how many of those are for the FRESH water cooled models? I do not care to do all your research for you, sorry

I acknowledge that the salt water cooled models had issues
The one I have purchased is not a salt water cooled model.

Thanks

add: when we have ascertained how many FRESH water cooled models have had problems Vs quantity sold, then and only then will we have some reasonably helpful data.

If its 3 out of 10 sold I admit that aint good

if its 3 out of 1000 sold I am not concerned.
Especially as a lot of those articles also made mention of poor installation by the owner.
If you have already purchased this then the point is moot and so is this conversation. Get it up to scratch and report back in a year or two with your positive experiences. BTW, in case you did not bother to click on any of those links there was some positive user comments from FP owners in them too.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:04 PM   #69
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I'm not a fan of any particular brand of Genset mfg., but I'm currently having my Northern Lights 4.5 Genset reconditioned at a long time family operated dealer here in FL. They seem the least familiar with Northern Lights out of any brand that they service, according to them, because if you simply do the maintenance, there's not really much else for them to do. If I could pick a weak spot, it would have to be the exhaust elbow, which I replaced on mine with a stainless unit.....no problems. What was striking was to see the Northern Lights windings sitting next to other brands in the shop. The difference was stunning. I'm not sure who makes the 3 cyl. Lugger diesel in that configuration, but if you can keep the fluids flowing through it, it doesn't seem powerful enough to hurt itself.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:04 PM   #70
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When I had trouble starting my Onan,(I could if I went into the ER, held the fuel solenoid rod across manually, after start the secondary one held it normally), I found the near $400 solenoid part number I needed from all the posts about solenoid failures. So they all have their problems.
The FP has the less weight the OP needs, that could be a decider,even so a wander through past posts provided to see which do/don`t help can`t hurt.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:18 PM   #71
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BTW, in case you did not bother to click on any of those links there was some positive user comments from FP owners in them too.
Yes I did see that thanks.

One from Nick on SV Jedi saying that there were definitely problems with the seawater cooled models (and that was the main complaint) but comment couldn't be made on the newer (fresh water cooled) models as no one had said anything yet.


I wonder as many have said that the box is small for that genny and being tight makes it hot, as I have space, why not leave their cover off and build it into a ply box lined with the appropriate sound proofing.
Or just cut their box and tray and expand it out several inches in all directions filling in the gaps with appropriate soundproofing.

Thats an easy job for me while its out of its tray getting the kubota worked on.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:34 PM   #72
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Yes I did see that thanks. One from Nick on SV Jedi saying that there were definitely problems with the seawater cooled models (and that was the main complaint) but comment couldn't be made on the newer (fresh water cooled) models as no one had said anything yet. I wonder as many have said that the box is small for that genny and being tight makes it hot, as I have space, why not leave their cover off and build it into a ply box lined with the appropriate sound proofing. Or just cut their box and tray and expand it out several inches in all directions filling in the gaps with appropriate soundproofing. Thats an easy job for me while its out of its tray getting the kubota worked on.
Another option instead of enlarging the sound shield, get one of these inline blowers drill a hole fix the duct to the shield done. Just another thought
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:58 PM   #73
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I wonder as many have said that the box is small for that genny and being tight makes it hot, as I have space, why not leave their cover off and build it into a ply box lined with the appropriate sound proofing.
Or just cut their box and tray and expand it out several inches in all directions filling in the gaps with appropriate soundproofing.

Thats an easy job for me while its out of its tray getting the kubota worked on.

I have quite a bit of experience putting generators in small rooms, enclosures, etc... Nothing as small as the FP, but small enough that I had to engineer the airflow systems to make it work. I've done this in climates from -50 outside to +100 or so, and can tell you its something you'll have to consider carefully.

Unless you are prepared to do some fairly serious engineering, I'd leave the enclosure as is. The people at FP have probably spent consideral R&D money designing, then tweaking over time their enclosure.
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Old 11-20-2013, 04:14 PM   #74
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Well this thread was very interesting since I have NL 5.5KW gen that is 13 years old (2500 hours) and the original exhaust elbow, so it looks like I got lucky and will most certainly will be replacing with a SS one in the spring, so thanks Parmenter for getting this tread going, I picked up a vidal piece of information, all the best with your FP.
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Old 11-20-2013, 05:14 PM   #75
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Thanks Craig. If a Mod says it. it must be so.
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Old 11-20-2013, 06:37 PM   #76
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Thanks Craig. If a Mod says it. it must be so.
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:31 PM   #77
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The final link in my previous post is most telling regarding this famous "lifetime warranty" offered by FP.
The lifetime warranty is on the rotor part of it, Not the entire unit and it does say that quite clearly in the warranty.
The poster even acknowledged that.


From that link (which was a SALT water Farryman unit not Freshwater cooled Kubota) they say
Quote:
"The unbeatable Panda warranty"?

Its not even close by my calculation. Unbeatable HOW? That the
rotor has a lifetime warranty? That''s nice, but irrelevant if the
engine blows up after two years!
So the generator bit was fine and to my way of thinking that is where the dollars are.
It was the SALT water cooled motor that had the problem.
As seems to be the case with the vast majority, if not all of the FP complaints.

Also interesting to note in the FP warranty it says
Quote:
Engine: 3 years or 1800 hours (whichever occurs first) from the date of purchase by original owner, transferable to subsequent buyers of the original vessel in which it was installed.
I would think that was probably amended after they did away with the salt water cooled models.
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:35 PM   #78
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better read more US Defense news....after 23 years with them...you better use a better standard...
One has to wonder why you stayed 23 years with such a crappy organisation
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Old 11-20-2013, 09:30 PM   #79
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One has to wonder why FP built salt water cooled units to begin with ------- just saying.
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Old 11-20-2013, 10:42 PM   #80
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One has to wonder why FP built salt water cooled units to begin with ------- just saying.
One has to wonder what sort of mug would have bought one knowing they were salt water cooled
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