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Old 05-11-2013, 08:40 PM   #21
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In reference to jeffnick's keen observation of possible upward drain explosions... did the launching yard's lift drop your boat by mistake into the water from some unusual height, which depending on certain items may have placed extreme back pressure on some hose portions. Hope you have ins!

If this is the case - water egress could also have pushed water into your engines via exhaust, depending on factors.

Best Luck! Boat Buddy!!
I had that same thought but for seawater to come in wouldn't it have to come in through the drains for grey water? Not sure yet but wouldn't those be on the side of the hull above the waterline?
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Old 05-11-2013, 08:54 PM   #22
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Soda blasting maybe? Either on your boat or close to it?
I think this is the best guess. Or it's sandblast crap! There are portholes right above all the sinks. They probably left them open and didn't even notice it. I won't ever use this yard for anything again. They took a week longer than they promised and didn't even do half the things they said they were going to do. I told them to skip those things so I could get the boat back in the water where I'll do most of it myself.

They painted the bottom with two coats of some new "moderately priced" black Interlux, they supposedly re-bedded the secondary strut on one shaft that had a minor leak, and they replaced one bolt on the swim step support that was leaking and the total came to $4000.... As such, the whole in the water has opened and the draining has begun! It's the one drain that always flows freely.
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Old 05-11-2013, 08:55 PM   #23
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Oh yeah, they replaced most of the zincs too.
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:09 PM   #24
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Welcome to boating Bigfish
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:38 PM   #25
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Thanks Craig... Ok, now. I have the airconditioner guy coming over Monday morning to help me get my airco's working... One has an airlock that I can probably fix myself, unless they DID drop the boat from the hoist... The other one wouldn't work during the survey and both are 10 years old.. So, I'm pricing new air conditioners. Also, during the survey, the Raymarine r80? on the flybridge and the r70 at the lower helm both worked and the radar worked but the GPS would show position but not speed... 120 antenna?? So I'm thinking all electronics have come a long way in the last 10 years and these things may be dinosaurs.. I found out I'd need to do some "adapting," to use a new 130 antenna with my rn300.. So I'm thinking of upgrading to reliable without all the bells and whistles. Something I can plot with and something that show's me where I am and where I'm going. I haven't looked into my depth finder yet but that's probably another thing I should at least have a backup for.
Couldn't I hobble together a pretty decent system with a new laptop, a GPS antenna that works with it (USB3?) and a decent software package? What am I missing? Radar.. I do have radar that works with the old Raymarine displays so I'd rather not replace that just yet. Any ideas?????
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Old 05-11-2013, 11:46 PM   #26
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I'd still call the police...
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:01 AM   #27
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I had that same thought but for seawater to come in wouldn't it have to come in through the drains for grey water? Not sure yet but wouldn't those be on the side of the hull above the waterline?
Bigfish - Correcto peel... re grey water drains being above waterline (at least they had better be that way on a standard basis)!

But... what might occur if boat was "dropped" into water from too high is that the gray water drain holes just may become submerged for seconds due to boat hull plopping too deeply into water. The reverse pressure into the drains could blow water up and through into sinks; thus splattering crap that had lay dormant in the pipes.

I'm just conjecturing on this... but that might be the case???

Again, Good Luck!
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Old 05-12-2013, 06:59 AM   #28
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BigFish, we're very close to the same stage as you with our boat; finding and fixing things.

Garmin has discounted the 740s chartplotter/MFD. Matched with their 18HD radome the whole package comes out under $2 BU. Apparently they're poised to release a new model and want these off the shelves. It's a good middle-of-the-road MFD, easy to use, and I think with a few extra components it should be portable between upper and lower helm. It'll work as a nice fish finder with the right transducer too, if you need that.

(BU, or Boating Unit, comes from the acronym BOAT: Break Out Another Thousand.)

The mess from the open port lights (or whatever) is the yard's responsibility. If nothing else, I'd get an estimate for the clean-up and send them a bill, preferably on your attorney's letterhead. And I'd never let the boat near that yard again.
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:55 AM   #29
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BigFish, I would be mad as hell. I would guess that the drains were not working and someone dumped some chemicals down the drain to un plug the drain and then everything when boom. I've seen professional strength liquid plumber explode to cover the entire bathroom with funk. Check your holding and lines for rupture. Something bad happened. Good luck
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:18 AM   #30
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BF - My heart and mind break for you regarding this untenable mess ... especially with this happening to you as a "new" boat owner.

Having read everyone's hypothesis as to why/how this mess may have occurred, and having my own conjecture... I'll chime in with those who mentioned Get A Lawyer - and I add... on this pronto with lawyer letterhead sent to the yard holding them accountable.

Be sure to chronologically document all that happened regarding this circumstance as well as all other items that occurred with that yard. Also, having worked in yards for years in my teens and early 20's, I know how scuttle butt gets around fast in a yard when something unusual occurs. I would go to the yard on a quiet stroll through the yard and simply discuss with the general “yard hands” what they may have seen happen to your boat. Talking with boaters that may be on their own boats in the vicinity where your boat was on the hard, where it was put into water, and the slip/dock the yard kept it at soon as it was in the water might give you and your lawyer some leverage to work with.

Appears to me you need to go on a fact finding mission to uncover the truth.

Best Luck!
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:11 AM   #31
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Thanks again for all your thoughts.. As a big fan of "forensic" reality shows, famous blood "spaa'er" (spatter) expert Dr. Henry Lee helped me determine that the spatter on the walls and ceiling did NOT come from the ports as I previously surmised. In the master head it's on the inside of the ceiling light and ceiling and not on the outside. It's also heaviest right on the sink counter and not much in the shower closest to the port. Same in the forward head.

I don't know how the plumbing is routed but if the sinks drain directly down, then make one turn to the outside of the hull and there's nothing in between them, my guess is they were sand (or soda?) blasting the hull before painting and they shot it directly into the drain holes.. Maybe they cleaned them out for me! I haven't cleaned anything up yet. I've got a highly recommended (but so was this yard...) marine airco and boat electric guy coming over in the morning and I'm going to get his opinion before I do anything. I still haven't even looked in the engine room yet as these engine covers are very heavy and cumbersome. I'll do that with the guy in the morning. I did forward the photos to the broker who had no idea what it could be either. He hasn't responded with an opinion. he was the guy who recommended the yard too.. He's been great through the whole process and I'm sure he's not thrilled with the yard either. What I want to know is this, "Where was the President while all this was happening?"
The plot thickens.....
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:29 PM   #32
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Never say never, but I would be quite surprised if the mess came up through the sink drains. The connecting hoses and through hulls for these are quite small and with the bends typically in the hoses one would have to put the nozzle directly into the through-hull to have any hope of stuff coming up through the drains.

We have the lower hull of our boat pressure washed every time it's hauled. The drain through-hulls for the galley and aft head sinks are just above the waterline in the boot stripe and they always get the full force of the pressure washer played over them. We had seacocks put on the drain through-hulls because they are so close to the waterline but we open them when we're on the boat. Nothing ever comes up into the sink.

If you have not already done so I would contact the yard and ask them if they knew what happened or might have happened. If it occurred while the boat was under their care then they should be responsible for cleaning it up. It's hard to imagine the delivery skipper not noticing this as he brought the boat over and secured it for you.

I also doubt the boat was "dropped" into the water hard enough to do this. I don't know the configuration of your boat but our sink drains are in the sides of the boat so a hard splashdown would not force water up through them. If a Travelift sling broke while they were relaunching your boat-- not very likely-- the yard should have said so because the boat may have much greater problems now than some spatter in the cabins.

If the spatter was vandalism after the boat was delivered and left in your slip, then as others have said it's probably a matter for the police. Not that they can do anything about it but a police report may be a requirement of your insurance policy for a cleanup claim like this.
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:45 PM   #33
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Never say never, but I would be quite surprised if the mess came up through the sink drains. The connecting hoses and through hulls for these are quite small and with the bends typically in the hoses one would have to put the nozzle directly into the through-hull to have any hope of stuff coming up through the drains.

We have the lower hull of our boat pressure washed every time it's hauled. The drain through-hulls for the galley and aft head sinks are just above the waterline in the boot stripe and they always get the full force of the pressure washer played over them. We had seacocks put on the drain through-hulls because they are so close to the waterline but we open them when we're on the boat. Nothing ever comes up into the sink.

If you have not already done so I would contact the yard and ask them if they knew what happened or might have happened. If it occurred while the boat was under their care then they should be responsible for cleaning it up. It's hard to imagine the delivery skipper not noticing this as he brought the boat over and secured it for you.

I also doubt the boat was "dropped" into the water hard enough to do this. I don't know the configuration of your boat but our sink drains are in the sides of the boat so a hard splashdown would not force water up through them. If a Travelift sling broke while they were relaunching your boat-- not very likely-- the yard should have said so because the boat may have much greater problems now than some spatter in the cabins.

If the spatter was vandalism after the boat was delivered and left in your slip, then as others have said it's probably a matter for the police. Not that they can do anything about it but a police report may be a requirement of your insurance policy for a cleanup claim like this.
I've pretty much dismissed the vandalism theory as this marina is very secure and there are lots of liveaboards and people here at all hours. I can't imagine any way vandals could or would cause the mess I see.

When the yard owner called me to let me know the boat was back int the slip and that he and one of his employees brought it over, I was an hour away and he said this, "I'm not sure how you like to tie up your boat but we secured it." then he added.. ".... I think you should come directly here first before you go anywhere else." After I hung up I thought that odd, was he that unsure of his and his employees ability to secure a boat in it's slip?? Or was there something else? He sounded like there was something he wasn't telling me. When I got here they had all gone home for the weekend so I didn't leave any voicemail messages.. Tomorrow will be an interesting day.
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:48 PM   #34
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BigFish, we're very close to the same stage as you with our boat; finding and fixing things.

Garmin has discounted the 740s chartplotter/MFD. Matched with their 18HD radome the whole package comes out under $2 BU. Apparently they're poised to release a new model and want these off the shelves. It's a good middle-of-the-road MFD, easy to use, and I think with a few extra components it should be portable between upper and lower helm. It'll work as a nice fish finder with the right transducer too, if you need that.

(BU, or Boating Unit, comes from the acronym BOAT: Break Out Another Thousand.)

The mess from the open port lights (or whatever) is the yard's responsibility. If nothing else, I'd get an estimate for the clean-up and send them a bill, preferably on your attorney's letterhead. And I'd never let the boat near that yard again.
Hey Capt Tom! Thanks for the heads up. Where did you find that package deal price??
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:28 AM   #35
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Hey Capt Tom! Thanks for the heads up. Where did you find that package deal price??
West Marine's ad. Then I looked on line and found that was the same price other places had. The guy at WM told me they're coming out with a new model, that's why the price reduction. Very helpful guy, so I bought from them. Was supposed to be in Friday, but I still haven't heard yet.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:18 AM   #36
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Boat Yard Owner Just Left!

He said that my thru-hull fittings were badly encrusted and they sand blasted them but that doesn't answer how it came up through the sinks. He point out that the sinks should be draining out above the waterline and I'm pretty sure they do, but he also pointed out that had they blasted those outlets I'd have a major fiberglass re-do job in that area. Nothing there.. He said he's never seen it before. He said it's definitely his sand but he's as baffled as the rest of us as to how it came up through the sinks.

He and his wife are coming over to clean up the mess.. I'm sure things will be clearer once I get down into the bilge and tracing where things go. I'm almost afraid to look. My airco guy was supposed to come this morning and I was going to let him help me get these floorboards up but he re-scheduled for this afternoon.

Apparently the broker forwarded my pictures to the yard owner as he just showed up at the boat.

I was real nice and didn't ream him but a bill for whatever damage down below will surely follow if they broke anything.

Anybody have a clue how blasting any of my through hulls would end up coming out of my sinks?? I'm sure there is an explanation somewhere...

Aren't boats fun!

I'm off to pick up my order of butyl rubber tape at the UPS office. I hear its good stuff....

Thanks again to all of you for your educated guesses!

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Old 05-13-2013, 02:26 PM   #37
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Bigfish

What did you ask the yard to do in regards to bottom cleaning? "Soda" spills can be very difficult to clean up and repair, hoping you don't have too many issues with the other work this yard did.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:24 PM   #38
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He said that my thru-hull fittings were badly encrusted and they sand blasted them ...

....Anybody have a clue how blasting any of my through hulls would end up coming out of my sinks?? I'm sure there is an explanation somewhere...
Maybe I'm missing something here but if the thru-hulls were opened and they sandblasted them, what prevents the media from going up the thru-hull, up into the hose and out the sink? It is not that uncommon for sink drains to have thru-hulls located at or below the water line.
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:40 PM   #39
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Maybe I'm missing something here but if the thru-hulls were opened and they sandblasted them, what prevents the media from going up the thru-hull, up into the hose and out the sink? It is not that uncommon for sink drains to have thru-hulls located at or below the water line.
I had the same thought - both galley and head sink drains are below the waterline on our sailboat.
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:48 PM   #40
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In the master head it's on the inside of the ceiling light
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