Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-28-2012, 08:52 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Gulfstar 36's Avatar
 
City: Kent Island
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sundowner
Vessel Model: Gulfstar 36 MrkII
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 226
Expected cost for injector service

I have two 38 year old Perkins 4-236 engines. Last year the surveyor said one of them was making a strange sound and should be services one day. I was thinking about this and Iím curious on what I can expect to pay to have all 8 done.
__________________
Advertisement

Gulfstar 36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 09:50 AM   #2
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,739
Around here (CT) injectors cost about $60 - $80 each to get rebuilt.
That is if you bring them to a shop.
__________________

__________________
Jay Leonard
Attitude Adjustment
40 Albin
Mystic,Ct. /New Port Richey,Fl
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 11:10 AM   #3
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
Have a diesel mechanic come look/listen/feel. It might be they just need adjusting. Spring of each year I have the engine service/looked at, and each year he takes the cover off, listens/feels and tweaks the injectors. Even if I do not feel I need him, I have him come so when I really need him, he knows I am a consistent and reliable customer. He also services the Webasto and we change oil and/or take oil samples September/October. We been using the boat so little that an oil smaple is taken.
Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 12:04 PM   #4
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Rather than throw parts at it, buy an injector pop tester off Ebay for a couple hundred dollars and test them yourself.

You might even find it satisfying and economical to rebuild them yourself.
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 12:49 PM   #5
Guru
 
ben2go's Avatar
 
City: Upstate,SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: The Caroliner
Vessel Model: Plans to build 30' Spira Sitka
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
Rather than throw parts at it, buy an injector pop tester off Ebay for a couple hundred dollars and test them yourself.

You might even find it satisfying and economical to rebuild them yourself.

Yes, gawd yes.This will save you a lot of money over time.Shimming the injector springs so that each injector pops open at the same pressure does wonders for engine smoothness and easier starting.I was shown how to do it but have never actually done it myself.The person showing me matched all the injectors to the one that required the most pressure to pop them open.When I installed them on the old tractor,it was night and day difference on how it ran.Wayyyyyyyy better and smoother.

pop-testing - YouTube
__________________
BEN'S BOAT BLOG

ben2go is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 12:56 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Gulfstar 36's Avatar
 
City: Kent Island
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sundowner
Vessel Model: Gulfstar 36 MrkII
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 226
Cool video! I have 2 "oil cars" both VWs
About 5 years ago it replaced the nozzles in my 2000 with oversized ones but never took the injectors apart. I assume know this I should be ok at the very least removing the ones from the Perkins and taking them into a shop?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ben2go View Post
Yes, gawd yes.This will save you a lot of money over time.Shimming the injector springs so that each injector pops open at the same pressure does wonders for engine smoothness and easier starting.I was shown how to do it but have never actually done it myself.The person showing me matched all the injectors to the one that required the most pressure to pop them open.When I installed them on the old tractor,it was night and day difference on how it ran.Wayyyyyyyy better and smoother.

pop-testing - YouTube
Gulfstar 36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 02:23 PM   #7
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
There is an easy way to sort of field test the injectors. Before removing them to take them in for service or replacement

All that is required is a wrench and a oil diaper.

With the engine running. Where the fuel line feeds the injector Crack the nut loose. Keep the wrench on the nut. Listen to the sound of the engine.

You will notice a difference right away.

Use the oil absorbent towel to pick the bit of diesel that will spurt out.

If you hear a knock that go's away when you crack the line you will know what injector or injectors need servicing.
A knock is usually caused by an injector that is leaking or dribbling.
A leaking injector puts to much fuel into the cylinder causing a knockwhen it fires.

If you hear no difference at all you will know that that injector is not working.

The difference in the sound of the engine is quite remarkable

The last time I pulled all my injectors I had them tested for $25.00

The spray pattern was checked at the proper pressure took about 15 min.

Sd
__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 06:35 AM   #8
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,525
There will always be combustion build up on the holes in the injector nozzle.

This can cause smoking and rough running.

On a frequently used engine that gets good hours a year there are chemicals that will help .Stanadine is my first choice.

For 35 year old injectors with internal springs that age differently , along with the low load cruising common on rec boats that carbons the engine , a rebuild/renew is in order.

The fuel burn may only get a bit better , but the smoothness and noise reduction is worth the bucks .
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 10:21 AM   #9
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by skipperdude View Post
There is an easy way to sort of field test the injectors. Before removing them to take them in for service or replacement

All that is required is a wrench and a oil diaper.

With the engine running. Where the fuel line feeds the injector Crack the nut loose. Keep the wrench on the nut. Listen to the sound of the engine.

You will notice a difference right away.

Use the oil absorbent towel to pick the bit of diesel that will spurt out.

If you hear a knock that go's away when you crack the line you will know what injector or injectors need servicing.
A knock is usually caused by an injector that is leaking or dribbling.
A leaking injector puts to much fuel into the cylinder causing a knockwhen it fires.

If you hear no difference at all you will know that that injector is not working.

The difference in the sound of the engine is quite remarkable
I had a pretty well respected independent diesel mechanic do this to my engine a few years ago because of slight smoking and a slight oil film in the exhaust water. Loosening each injector in turn made no difference in the smoke or film.

The mechanic took a job in Afganistan and is no longer around the area. I'm wondering if the injectors are all equally worn and this is causing the smoke and film?

The engine is 13 years old and has about 3100 hours on it. The PO did not give me the service history.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 10:27 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Gulfstar 36's Avatar
 
City: Kent Island
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sundowner
Vessel Model: Gulfstar 36 MrkII
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 226
I have similar symptoms . Port engine idles very rough, bluish smoke above 2000 RPM and a film on the water while idling at the dock.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
I had a pretty well respected independent diesel mechanic do this to my engine a few years ago because of slight smoking and a slight oil film in the exhaust water. Loosening each injector in turn made no difference in the smoke or film.

The mechanic took a job in Afganistan and is no longer around the area. I'm wondering if the injectors are all equally worn and this is causing the smoke and film?

The engine is 13 years old and has about 3100 hours on it. The PO did not give me the service history.
Gulfstar 36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 10:31 AM   #11
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Loosening each injector in turn made no difference in the smoke or film.

I'm wondering if the injectors are all equally worn and this is causing the smoke and film?
After that long it is likely that the tips are worn and/or coated with deposits that alter the spray pattern. It is well worth pulling them to check the popping pressure and spray pattern.

The upside is improved combustion and reducing the chance of liner or piston damage from flame impingement.
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 11:26 AM   #12
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
Removing the injectors is not that big a job.

It's just a nuts and bolts sort of thing.

Use your camera so you know how to reinstall them.

You will be pleased with yourself when you are done. And you will know more about your engine.

the next thing you know you will be adjusting the valves yourself.

I rebuilt the whole top end on my Cat 3208.

Search the thread on Cat 3208 n.a. coolant leak.

You can do it.

Sd
__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 11:43 AM   #13
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
After that long it is likely that the tips are worn and/or coated with deposits that alter the spray pattern. It is well worth pulling them to check the popping pressure and spray pattern.

The upside is improved combustion and reducing the chance of liner or piston damage from flame impingement.
The best I could do is probably to remove them and send them out for inspection and repair. If there's unburned fuel in the exhaust, it's fuel that's not propelling the boat.

Any suggestions on where to send them?

BTW: The engine runs fine, no roughness or lack of power that I can tell.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 11:55 AM   #14
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
Just check around for diesel systems. Most any place dealing with diesel engines can test injectors.

SD
__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 05:24 PM   #15
Guru
 
motion30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by skipperdude View Post
Removing the injectors is not that big a job.

It's just a nuts and bolts sort of thing.

Use your camera so you know how to reinstall them.

You will be pleased with yourself when you are done. And you will know more about your engine.

the next thing you know you will be adjusting the valves yourself.

I rebuilt the whole top end on my Cat 3208.

Search the thread on Cat 3208 n.a. coolant leak.

You can do it.

Sd
How hard is it to pull the injectors from a 3208?
motion30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 09:02 PM   #16
Guru
 
Max Simmons's Avatar
 
City: Everett, WA
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 38'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 528
I pulled my injectors on the Port engine and had them re-built about 300 hrs ago. Cost was around $85/ea.
I was hoping it would have made a difference in the smoke and oil from exhaust at start up, but couldn't see any difference. Perkins 6.534 non turbo, 2,100 hrs.
Max Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 11:03 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Baggiolini's Avatar
 
City: Monterey, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Mahalo
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 398
I had a smoking problem, so bad that I smoked out one of the restaurants that overlooks the marina in Monterey. People coughing, waving their hands in front of their faces, etc. it would have been really funny if it wasn't my boat. Anyway, they just reinstalled the injectors, one on the port was totally "clogged". Haven't gotten the bill but when I do, I'll post it.
Baggiolini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 02:25 AM   #18
Guru
 
Edelweiss's Avatar
 
City: PNW
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 1976 Californian Tricabin LRC
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulfstar 36 View Post
I have two 38 year old Perkins 4-236 engines. Last year the surveyor said one of them was making a strange sound and should be services one day.
--------------------------------
Is the engine running smoothly, excessive smoke, hissing or knocking sound or what kind of noise? Was the surveyor a diesel mechanic or . . . . . . just a surveyor? The surveyor has probably never heard your engine run before, so do they sound normal to you? If you're not mechanical maybe it's time to have a qualified mechanic take a look at it.

Lot's of things can go wrong on an engine, burned or bent valves, bad valve springs, loose valve lifters, leaky injector seat, piston wrist pin wear and some engines are just a little bit noisy. See if you can isolate the noise if you can actually hear it. If you're seeing excessive smoke and oil in the exhaust don't automatically assume it's the injectors, it could be wear in the injector pump, pump timing, or maybe even low cylinder compression.

If the injectors have never been checked, by all means take them to an injector shop and have them pressure tested and the spray pattern checked. It's relatively inexpensive for the test as long as you take them out and re-install them. Be sure and buy and install some new injector seats, they look like a spark plug ring or thin flat washer, from the shop to replace the old seat rings on the re-install.

Larry B
Edelweiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 06:06 AM   #19
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,525
The most common cause of lots of smoke is poor compression.

If not protected in some way the moisture in the wet exhaust and in the air will cause rust spots on the cylinder walls when the engine is not used for a while.

AS this rust is scraped off with each start , eventually the cylinders will not hold compression very well.

This is when it takes 140F + coolant temp to stop the smoke.

The next problem on many trawlers is a constant under load , which carbons the rings , sometimes to sticking .

Add in the oil dilution from the fuel passing the rings,at low load , and SURPRISE ! a smoker.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:38 AM   #20
JD
Guru
 
JD's Avatar
 
City: New Bern NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Stella Di Mare
Vessel Model: Mainship 34t
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,702
Folks need to be careful with the cost factor on an injector rebuild. I had the four injectors rebuilt on my sailboat engine several years ago. The dealer that did the rebuilt is a well known diesel repair shop in New Bern NC. When they got done they sent me a bill that was twice as much as what they had quoted for the rebuild. They had said around $100 per injector and they billed out over $200 each. A new injector from Yanmar was $175. It took a bit of discussion to get the bill down. They even had the guts to say that the ones I had were now new.

So just make sure you can't buy new for close to what they want to rebuild them.
__________________

JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012