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Old 07-17-2012, 07:19 PM   #41
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I think the original post got answered a long time ago. The original poster isn't even talking about it anymore. So the thread has devolved into mindless babble now. Besides, California is such an easy target it's hard to resist taking a shot when the opportunity arises.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:21 PM   #42
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Then y'all would be okay if we closed it?
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:43 PM   #43
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Fine with me but you should probably ask Art---- he posed the original question.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:56 PM   #44
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Back to 671 diesel and boat basics

For 6 hours today I self surveyed what I hopped would be an in OK condition, fiberglass, 47' tour boat layout "barn find" sitting in plain sight in fresh water. Long and short of it - Bummer! Although the Detroit 671's and trany are stellar condition with unbelievable low hours and continual care there are other items on and in the 1981 boat that simply = No Purchase. Would have been nice... but... the costly repairs do not complement the boat's true value!
Next contestant!
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:53 PM   #45
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Back to 671 diesel and boat basics

For 6 hours today I self surveyed what I hopped would be an in OK condition, fiberglass, 47' tour boat layout "barn find" sitting in plain sight in fresh water. Long and short of it - Bummer! Although the Detroit 671's and trany are stellar condition with unbelievable low hours and continual care there are other items on and in the 1981 boat that simply = No Purchase. Would have been nice... but... the costly repairs do not complement the boat's true value!
Next contestant!
If you hadn't included the length I'd swear we've been looking at some of the same boats. A lot of good looking dogs out there, it's the fleas that kill them.
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:59 AM   #46
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If you hadn't included the length I'd swear we've been looking at some of the same boats. A lot of good looking dogs out there, it's the fleas that kill them.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:03 AM   #47
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So Art, just curious.... why are you looking to replace your Tollycraft? Or are you looking to add to your Tollycraft?

I've never operated a boat with 6-71s but I've been on a lot of them from the aku boats in Hawaii in the 1970s to surplus landing craft in the San Juans. Pretty reliable powerplants and they seem able to put up with a minimum of maintenance and still keep plugging away. I guess in theory their fuel efficiency leaves a bit to be desired, but if they go and go and go like the Energizer Bunny and don't require much maintenance or repair, their fuel burn may actually be cancelled out or even paid for by their overall low operating cost.

And they sound cool.
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:38 AM   #48
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Can one of the moderators ask what all this has to do with the original topic? Can we stop the CA bashing and move back on track, please?

kthxbia :^)
When a thread moves into a subject I don't care about, I just don't read it anymore.

This forum does seem a little worse than most others as far as staying on topic. I've noticed that boat questions often drift into airplane and RV discussions for example.

Of course this discussion of staying on topic is off topic itself.
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:11 AM   #49
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So Art, just curious.... why are you looking to replace your Tollycraft? Or are you looking to add to your Tollycraft?

I've never operated a boat with 6-71s but I've been on a lot of them from the aku boats in Hawaii in the 1970s to surplus landing craft in the San Juans. Pretty reliable powerplants and they seem able to put up with a minimum of maintenance and still keep plugging away. I guess in theory their fuel efficiency leaves a bit to be desired, but if they go and go and go like the Energizer Bunny and don't require much maintenance or repair, their fuel burn may actually be cancelled out or even paid for by their overall low operating cost.

And they sound cool.
Thanks for asking Marin

But, NO - I/we are not at all in interest to replace or sell our happy-go-lucky 1977 34’ Tolly tri cabin. She's a most care free, stable, comfortable, and fun craft; overall, she’s darn inexpensive and easy to own, maintain, and operate!

Reason I was/am contemplating a tour-type boat is for biz reasons only. The one I yesterday reviewed/surveyed at first blush appeared it might be a slam-dunk for SF Delta and Bay biz profit potential... however... upon close examination, I found way too many high expense and time consuming nightmares of repair/refurbishment that are immediately necessary. Her twin screw 671s were still cherry regarding their amazingly low hours and prodigious upkeep by owner. The 6'6" tall and full walk around engine room was the best layout I've ever experienced in a relatively small craft - 47 loa / 17' beam Both 671 start with push of a button, sound great, gauges read great, and there was NO black or white smoke during a cold start... after 30 days of sitting at rest. Great engines and trany - very bad boat, structurally as well as some other way-too costly items. Rotten chine logs as well as other extensive structural rots make her basically non-retrievable. The elderly owner (a truly nice fellow who lived aboard the boat for 27 years and was forced off by doctors and the fact that it takes two helpers to get him aboard) was basically ready to give her to me, but from my extensive survey I realized the repairs’ costs... if all of them could even be correctly accomplished... would upon completion far outweigh the boats value in biz or resale. Soooo – next contestant! I have no problem walking away from any material object if the $$$’s needed to own it don’t meet the financial or personal-fun profits I require.
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:09 PM   #50
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I've noticed that boat questions often drift into airplane and RV discussions for example.

:
That's because a lot of cruising boaters are also into RV-ing or are or were pilots. I find the thought of RV-ing to be but one step up the exciting scale from watching paint dry, but every knows airplanes are far more interesting than boats.
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Old 07-19-2012, 05:55 AM   #51
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For many folks the use of RV systems is a big draw.

1/2 to 1/10 the price for the same results is useful to many.

EX , $18.00 for a RV merge solenoid, vs about $200 for a complex unrepairable transistorized gadget that gets the same result.

Dock strutters usually prefer the "marine" 10X the co$t for bragging rights at the bar..

Active cruisers may make a different choice.

FF
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:28 AM   #52
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For many folks the use of RV systems is a big draw.

1/2 to 1/10 the price for the same results is useful to many.

EX , $18.00 for a RV merge solenoid, vs about $200 for a complex unrepairable transistorized gadget that gets the same result.

Dock strutters usually prefer the "marine" 10X the co$t for bragging rights at the bar..

Active cruisers may make a different choice.

FF
Or - It could be that the person who choses "marine" components for his or her boat knows something that the person who uses cheaper components does not know.

Some components and systems are easily interchangable. For example potable water system components. Others are not. Examples would be electrical and propane systems and components.

A boat is not just an RV set on a hull. There are a lot of important safety considerations for boat components.
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Old 07-19-2012, 08:22 AM   #53
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Or - It could be that the person who choses "marine" components for his or her boat knows something that the person who uses cheaper components does not know.

Some components and systems are easily interchangable. For example potable water system components. Others are not. Examples would be electrical and propane systems and components.

A boat is not just an RV set on a hull. There are a lot of important safety considerations for boat components.

Maybe it's the other way around...the guy using the RV component at 1/10 the price may be the smarter of the two....
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Old 07-19-2012, 08:37 AM   #54
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Each to their own and own to their each! Although price is a factor ... what IS most important is the ongoing safety we boaters reach!
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:38 AM   #55
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Maybe it's the other way around...the guy using the RV component at 1/10 the price may be the smarter of the two....
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:42 AM   #56
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Each to their own and own to their each! Although price is a factor ... what IS most important is the ongoing safety we boaters reach!
I think that is exactly what FF and I usually say...spend the money where it is needed most and for those of us that are on a budget..shop wisely and save where appropriate.

Being able to do that and give that advice with a clear conscience comes from a lifetime (50 plus years) of boating, repairing, professional mariner time, trained technician time, working in the industry, living aboard 3 different boats, debriefing thousands of surivors/clients involved with boating incidents, etc...etc...I don't take this stuff as lightly as some may think.

I would never advise someone to go to the big box store and jury rig a proper seacock...but I'll be glad to explain how to assemble a fresh water system that is NOT gonna sink your boat or catch it on fire with pieces and parts that are a fraction of what a marine store or design would cost/call for.
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:46 AM   #57
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I think that is exactly what FF and I usually say...spend the money where it is needed most and for those of us that are on a budget..shop wisely and save where appropriate.

Being able to do that and give that advice with a clear conscience comes from a lifetime (50 plus years) of boating, repairing, professional mariner time, trained technician time, working in the industry, living aboard 3 different boats, debriefing thousands of surivors/clients involved with boating incidents, etc...etc...I don't take this stuff as lightly as some may think.

I would never advise someone to go to the big box store and jury rig a proper seacock...but I'll be glad to explain how to assemble a fresh water system that is NOT gonna sink your boat or catch it on fire with pieces and parts that are a fraction of what a marine store or design would cost/call for.
Yup!
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:56 PM   #58
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For a lot of "mariners" paying a lot of money and having a marine stamp gives them the confidence that they are unable to achieve any other way. They simply don't have the skill set to evaluate their options and choose wisely. A lot of people come to this late in life with no particular knowledge about or ability to assess mechanical systems. For them paying too much is a form of insurance and gives them some confidence. Misguided confidence often IMHO but confidence nevertheless.
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:19 PM   #59
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For a lot of "mariners" paying a lot of money and having a marine stamp gives them the confidence that they are unable to achieve any other way. They simply don't have the skill set to evaluate their options and choose wisely. A lot of people come to this late in life with no particular knowledge about or ability to assess mechanical systems. For them paying too much is a form of insurance and gives them some confidence. Misguided confidence often IMHO but confidence nevertheless.
Again, Yup!
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:32 PM   #60
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Systems like water heaters, refrigerators, stoves and ovens, etc. may have differences, quality or safety, between RV/home units and "marine" units that are worth paying attention to. The problem is that as Bob said, most of us don't have the time, background, experience, or interest in knowing every little thing about refrigerators, hot water heaters, and stoves. So we tend to rely on the manufacturers (ideally reputable ones) to provide us with suitable systems for our boats.

BUT..... there are areas where a lot of money can be saved by avoiding the "marine" label and you don't need a lifetime of technical experience to do so. One that comes to mind is fasteners. Unlike planes, which rightly or wrongly have to have every screw, rivet, lock washer, and wire tie "approved" by a regulatory agency, you can put whatever you want into your boat. The stainless fasteners at Ace or Home Despot are going to work in a boat as well as they do in a birdhouse, and they generally cost a fraction of what you'll pay for that same bolt or screw or washer at West Marine, Fisheries, etc. Over time, if you do a lot of the maintenance and upgrades on your boat yourself, you can save an impressive amount of money.

Wire and electrical connectors are another one.

So while I would not put a Warn winch intended to be mounted on a Jeep on the bow of my boat to use as an anchor windlass, I'm just fine with buying fasteners and wire and connecters and wire ties and PVC pipe and connectors, sandpaper, blue tape, brushes and a whole lot of other stuff from the Aces, Home Despots, Sears, etc. of the world. At a fraction of what the same components would cost with a marine store bar code on them.
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