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Old 11-18-2011, 03:01 PM   #1
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Engine Warning Buzzer

Does anyone know of a buzzer that will cancel itself after several seconds of noise making?

A warning(low oil psi, high coolent temp. etc) will continue until DC power is removed or the condition resolves itself. I may want to keep DC power on to watch the situation, but now must listen to the buzzer sounding.

I have considered a cutout switch but don't like the thought of forgeting it.

Thanks.
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Old 11-18-2011, 05:08 PM   #2
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RE: Engine Warning Buzzer

This isn't automatic in that it will silence itself but that is not a good idea anyway. This circuit will sound the buzzer and light a warning light. The audible alarm can be silenced by pushing the momentary contact "SILENCE" switch. The light will stay on as long as the alarm condition exists so you can't forget about it.

The way it works is the alarm signal lights the light and makes annoying noises. You press the silence button and the relay coil is energized. That opens the circuit to the buzzer and silences it and at the same time closes the open contact that feeds power around the SILENCE switch so that when you release it the power stays on to energize the relay coil.

When the alarm condition goes away, everything goes back to normal.
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Old 11-18-2011, 05:26 PM   #3
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RE: Engine Warning Buzzer

I have an on/off switch.
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Old 11-19-2011, 06:58 AM   #4
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RE: Engine Warning Buzzer

RickB: Thanks for the idea, I will check it out.
Oldstone: Agreed, we need the buzzer to attract our attention to the problem. Once it has our attention the sound is not needed and is an annoying distraction, the light stays on as long as there is a problem. I may want to or need to keep the motor running at idle. Maybe a false warning, gauge shows all is well. May not want to hear low oil psi every time motors are started.
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Old 11-19-2011, 07:10 AM   #5
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RE: Engine Warning Buzzer

Quote:
Old Stone wrote:
My opinion only, but if I had a light only, I would quickly learn to ignore it or just would not notice it. I can't ignore the buzzer...
That is why alarm systems on marine and aeronautical vessels have both. The audio alarm gets your attention and the visual alarm tells you which system has the problem.

It is critical that the audio alarm can be silenced because it will overload the operator if it continues to make noise. Audio alarms that are too loud or canot be silenced will be muted or disabled by the operator and negate the reason they are installed.

If you are up to your butt in alligators you will not only ignore the buzzer, you won't even hear it.
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Old 11-19-2011, 07:12 AM   #6
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RE: Engine Warning Buzzer

Quote:
millennium wrote:May not want to hear low oil psi every time motors are started.
*Yes you do ... it is the only way you know the low oil pressure warning works.
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Old 11-19-2011, 09:41 AM   #7
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RE: Engine Warning Buzzer

Quote:
RickB wrote:. Audio alarms that are too loud or canot be silenced will be muted or disabled by the operator and negate the reason they are installed.
If you are up to your butt in alligators you will not only ignore the buzzer, you won't even hear it.
*I couldn't agree more.* It seems to me that the vast majority of commercial boats have alarms that are so loud they hurt your ears.* As a result, most have large amounts of tape over the buzzer.* Why do manufacturers think they have to damage our hearing just to get our attention?* ...........Arctic Traveller
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Old 11-19-2011, 11:24 AM   #8
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RE: Engine Warning Buzzer

One of my retirement projects has been upgrade the engine warning systems. Not only as a good thing to have but also I like doing this stuff.

Individual warning lights and common buzzer for the following:
1. Low oil psi
2. High coolent temp
3. High Tranny oil temp
4. Hi Exhaust Temp
5. Alternator fail(Belt broken, no coolent pump)

I retired form flying, one of the first things to do after a warning is silence the bell. I will probably be accused of trying to make my trawler into an Airbus, but like I said I like the challange.

Thanks all for your input.
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Old 11-19-2011, 04:58 PM   #9
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Engine Warning Buzzer

Here ya go ...

Notice there is no alternator belt alarm. If the belt breaks you will most likely know immediately because your tach will fail. If your tach sensing is not supplied by the alternator but the jacket water pump is, you will get a high coolant temperature alarm soon enough.

If you have a belt driven raw water pump and that or the pump fails you will get a high exhaust temperture alarm.

I recommend GEMS temperature switches. Use LEDs across the alarm relay solenoids for your panel display. If you use blinking LEDs it will attract your attention to secondary alarms.



-- Edited by RickB on Saturday 19th of November 2011 06:02:24 PM


-- Edited by RickB on Saturday 19th of November 2011 06:04:07 PM
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Old 11-19-2011, 05:50 PM   #10
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RE: Engine Warning Buzzer

Millenium, Since you're a retired pilot, you'll probably also want to add master caution/master warning lights to grab your attention to the ongoing condition. It gives you something harmless to push while you try to figure out what the heck is going wrong. ;-)

It would be nice to be able to silence the horn for a defined period, something like 1-3 minutes, so you can monitor and address the situation in silence, then if it returns or persists, you get another horn. The last thing you need when troubleshooting an failed system is an irritating horn nagging at you like an old lady.

Just for the record, my old '77 has no warning systems at all. I feel kind of naked out there without the backup of the monitor/warning horn. So I try to keep up my scan of temps, pressures and amp, but nothing can substitute for continuous monitoring and signalling. One of my first to-do items in retirement (less than a year to R-day!!) is to add warning systems and replace my old capillary tube oil pressure gages with 20th century electrical gages. (I keep waiting for one of those old capillary tubes to crack!)
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Old 11-19-2011, 06:23 PM   #11
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RE: Engine Warning Buzzer

The drawing shows a master warning light and horn. A fault will illuminate the alarm light for the affected system and the master warning light as well as sound the horn.

Pressing the alarm silence button silences the horn but leaves the master warning and system alarm lights on. Subsequent faults will illuminate the light relevant to that system.

Correcting faults restores the system to normal.
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Old 11-19-2011, 08:53 PM   #12
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RE: Engine Warning Buzzer

Quote:
millennium wrote:
One of my retirement projects has been upgrade the engine warning systems. Not only as a good thing to have but also I like doing this stuff.

Individual warning lights and common buzzer for the following:
1. Low oil psi
2. High coolent temp
3. High Tranny oil temp
4. Hi Exhaust Temp
5. Alternator fail(Belt broken, no coolent pump)

I retired form flying, one of the first things to do after a warning is silence the bell. I will probably be accused of trying to make my trawler into an Airbus, but like I said I like the challange.

Thanks all for your input.
*Where are you getting the sensor for your tranny temp and alternator belt failure. I want to install those myself.

Ya goona get an ECAM?
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Old 11-20-2011, 04:57 AM   #13
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RE: Engine Warning Buzzer

If you are up to your butt in alligators you will not only ignore the buzzer, you won't even hear it

Righto, Just ask Air France 447
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Old 11-20-2011, 06:02 AM   #14
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RE: Engine Warning Buzzer

Rick- Thanks again for the revised idea. Good schematic drawings. Yanmar motors, tach sender looks at flywheel.

FlyWright- With that name you must be in the airplane world. "It gives you something harmless to push while you try to figure out what the heck is going wrong." I use to fly with one old codger who said when he had a problem he would calmly start winding the 8 day clock and look things over. Back when we had 8 day clocks.

TimJet-This has to be a bunch of pilots who like blinking lights and warning horns. My alternators are Balmars which I just installed, work great. The regulators has a terminal to light a warning light if the alternator has a problem. My zf transmissions came with a temp sensor. ECAM action please.
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Old 11-20-2011, 10:07 AM   #15
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RE: Engine Warning Buzzer

Yup, I remember 8 day clocks. Now I'm still trying to figure out that digital timer thingy.

I fly Learjet 60s (formerly Saberliners and King Air 300s) used for navaids inspection (Flight Check) for the FAA. Just got back from my last recurrent sim. My wife was able to join me to Dallas and had rode along for one of my sim sessions. She's never flown with me in the jet and loved it!!

I'm from a GA background with flight instructor, charter pilot, Aero Engineering degree, pipeline patrol, AM Radio Traffic Reporter in PA, Air Traffic Controller, Terps Specialist and then this job for the past 27 years.

I'm 50 weeks from retirement (but who's counting) and have similar projects lined up. My Balmar alternator and regulator sit in their boxes onboard awaiting installation. Major rewiring is needed on my 1977 hull since the looms cross the engine room hatch and behind each panel looks like a rat's nest of wires, some leading no where. I guess some of that's to be expected on a 34 year old boat.

I might contact you if I run into Balmar installation issues. ;-)
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Old 11-20-2011, 05:08 PM   #16
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RE: Engine Warning Buzzer

I used to think it was interesting when the low oil pressure buzzers went off on start up; until one of them shorted out & started a fire in the ER. Made a dull day get exciting. I fly a 690B for fuel money. If I'm not looking at a gauge of some sort, I feel lost. Currently, we are looking into replacing our existing Garmin 2006c GPS with something newer; possibly the 740 series. My understanding is that I can use the NMEA network with one of these & wire the chartplotter to let me know when temps, etc get out of hand. My Detroit 8.2 engines are really sensitive to overheating, so it is an important issue in our boat. Right now I use Murphy gauges for temp monitoring. I think all older boats must of had a rats-nest engineer as part of the design team. Scooter's PO was a guvmnt nuclear physicist; all the wires stayed in the boat!
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:07 PM   #17
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RE: Engine Warning Buzzer

Sorry this is another airplane story. I once had a sensor try to kill me. I had a little Cessna that I had landed at Ft. Lauderdale to clear customs. When I was ready to leave, I did my usual pre-flight and started the engine. The oil pressure came up and everything looked normal. The engine continued to run while I set the radios and listened to the weather. Suddenly there was a guy banging on the side of my airplane and pointing down. I shut the engine down and got out. All the oil was on the ground. The diaphram in the pressure switch that turned the hour meter on had failed. It didn't take long to empty the engine. I'm just glad it happened on the ground.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:44 AM   #18
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RE: Engine Warning Buzzer

Quote:
millennium wrote:
My zf transmissions came with a temp sensor.*
*Bill, I also have ZF tranny's. Does your tranny temp sensor monitor fluid temp or is it a thermocouple attached to the tranny? Light or gauge?

How can I determine if my tac's run off the altermator or some where else? If off the alternator, a failed tac would be sufficient warning that the belt failed.*
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:20 PM   #19
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RE: Engine Warning Buzzer

Tim: The transmission(zf630) sender is on the top, next to the neutral safety sensor. The overheat sender is a switch, closes at some oil temp showing an overheat. It was set up from the factory to sound the buzzer, same buzzer as the low engine oil pressure and high water temp.
If the Tach is coming of the alternator there would be an extra wire. Try disconnecting it to see the tach go to 0. Agreed if the tach does come off the alt a broken belt would make it go to zero. You gotta notice it though before you start cooking things.

FlyWright: feel free to contact me here, your Balmar install souldn't be to bad, single engine? I will try to post a picture of what I did here on a new thread. I'm sure you know you will need a larger cable coming off the alternator.
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:24 PM   #20
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RE: Engine Warning Buzzer

Quote:
millennium wrote:Agreed if the tach does come off the alt a broken belt would make it go to zero. You gotta notice it though before you start cooking things.*
*That is what the coolant temperature alarm is for.
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