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Old 11-12-2010, 10:14 PM   #1
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Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in


After a little mishap at the end of our last cruise I have had to open up the old Fiat 8210 M for an inspection and she needs a bit of work.
There is a long story to that part but that's for later.

Any how after a lot of contemplation I have decided on a transplant.
The engine I originally was going to put in Tidahapah when I was building her is now going in.
The 8210 M is a 14 lt 220 Hp nat asperiated engine producing 220 HP @ 2200 RPM
The Gardner is a 10.4 lt engine producing 127 Hp at 1500 RPM.
Old design but very reliable and exceptionally well built.
These engines are still being rebuilt to factory specs around the world.

The engine is about to come out in a couple of days.
I will retain the gearbox and eventually put another 4" pitch on the prop.
I will try and keep this up to date as I go along.
It is going to be a bit of a drawn out process as it gets done mostly when i am not at sea (work) attempting to make a few dollars to pay for all of this.

I have attached a couple of photos of progress so far.-- Edited by Tidahapah on Friday 12th of November 2010 11:15:15 PM

-- Edited by Tidahapah on Friday 12th of November 2010 11:16:11 PM

-- Edited by Tidahapah on Friday 12th of November 2010 11:16:41 PM


-- Edited by Tidahapah on Friday 12th of November 2010 11:28:38 PM

-- Edited by Tidahapah on Friday 12th of November 2010 11:35:29 PM
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Old 11-12-2010, 10:38 PM   #2
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Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

<a href="http://www.gardnermarine.com/75/section.aspx/download/3">http://www.gardnermarine.com/75/section.aspx/download/3
</a>This is Gardner 6LXB spec sheet.
Good old Pommie cast iron & aluminium.

Benn

-- Edited by Tidahapah on Friday 12th of November 2010 11:38:58 PM



-- Edited by Tidahapah on Saturday 13th of November 2010 08:13:04 AM
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Old 11-13-2010, 05:08 AM   #3
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RE: Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

Benn

What surprises me about the Gardner is how quiet they are, from the dock anyway. How about onboard and running as compared to the Fiat? What is the weight of the Gardner?
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Old 11-13-2010, 07:03 AM   #4
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RE: Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

TG
In overall dimensions there is not a lot of difference in the 2 engines.
The Gardner is a little narrower and higher that the Fiat but she was wider and a a little heavier.
She should be a mite quieter than the Fiat and also a little more economic.
I travel some pretty long distances so economy is more important than speed.
I may be able to get another 500 nautical miles from my fuel tanks which would then negate my use of the 500 lt deck bladder I carry for some long trips.

I think this old technology mite scare Marin off and wonder what the hell I am up to.

Benn
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Old 11-13-2010, 01:04 PM   #5
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RE: Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

Benn,
What a wonderful engine. Marin will like it because it's a slow runner*** ...he'll salivate at the thought of cruising at 1100 rpm. The only reason Marin won't put these Gardners in his boat is the cost and the loss when he sells his GB. I had no idea Gardner was building engines now at all much less this modern engine in the spec sheet. I'll be coming back to look at your Gardner many times.
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Old 11-13-2010, 04:05 PM   #6
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RE: Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

Eric,
No new engines being built.
Parts are available and there are a few people, ( mainly old tradsemen from the original Gardner works) doing factory rebuilds.
One guy here in Brisbane Gary Bryant (known as Gary Gardner in wooden boat circles) does beautiful rebuilds not cheap but well worth it.There is also another guy Kevin Mainline diesel doing the same thing.
Actually saw on U tube last night a video of a 6 LXB being transplanted into a GB 42.

Benn
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Old 11-15-2010, 02:30 PM   #7
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RE: Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

The only reason Marin won't put these Gardners in his boat is the cost and the loss when he sells his GB. I had no idea Gardner was building engines now at all much less this modern engine in the spec sheet. I'll be coming back to look at your Gardner many times.
If I ever repower our boat with anything it's going to be brand new and have a hell of a lot more power than what we have now.* I'm sure as heck not going to go backwards in time or power.

I don't know where you got the impression I like slow engines.* If money was no object and for some reason we wanted to re-power our GB36 instead of simply getting another boat, we'd put a pair of 300-plus hp engines in it if they would fit and still allows service room around them.* It's got a semi-planing hull on it, and we'd semi-plane it.

*
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Old 11-19-2010, 11:24 PM   #8
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RE: Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

I think Eric had his tongue firmly in his cheek there, Marin.....
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Old 11-20-2010, 09:34 AM   #9
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RE: Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

Quote:
Marin wrote:"If I ever re-power our boat with anything it's going to be brand new and have a hell of a lot more power than what we have now....* It's got a semi-planing hull on it, and we'd semi-plane it."
Exactly! My boat has a Cummins 330B (315 hp) Which is overkill when one
considers the hull speed of the boat but when more power is needed (wind, current,
tides, waves, big alternator, etc; it's comforting to see a change in the boats attitude
when you put more coal on the fire. (Not to mention re-sale value.)

*
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Old 11-20-2010, 04:29 PM   #10
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RE: Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

Well there is not a lot of point in over powering a displacement hull, unless of course you like to see money going up the funnel.

Resale in Australia goes up for a timber displacement cruiser if fitted with a good solid slow reving NA engine like the Gardner or Kelvin ( they have to be in VG condiotion of course)

Benn
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Old 11-20-2010, 05:38 PM   #11
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RE: Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

Quote:
Tidahapah wrote;
Well there is not a lot of point in over powering a displacement hull.......
I agree....the statement was relative to a semi-planing hull which allows one to pick his speed, be-it hull or planing.
*
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Old 11-20-2010, 10:22 PM   #12
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Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

Quote:
superdiver wrote:how about a semi displacement hull? Is the extra power worth it then?
My answer is "yes!" The speed of a semi displacement hull is limited only by the size of the engine & transmission. Once on plane, you can go as fast as your engine will allow. Keep in mind that you can always throttle back but if you need the extra speed (ie: smoothing out an otherwise choppy ride as Carey pointed out in an earlier thread) it's there! There are many other reasons for having the ability to achieve more speed. Yes, in a semi displacement boat, having an engine that is capable of pushing the boat beyond hull speed is a definite plus.

Here's one example:
*


-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Saturday 20th of November 2010 11:23:56 PM
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Old 11-21-2010, 01:31 PM   #13
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RE: Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

Quote:
superdiver wrote:

how about a semi displacement hull? Is the extra power worth it then?
Semi-displacement and semi-planing are the same thing.* According to what I've read by marine architects like Tom Fexas, the marketing folks are the ones who came up with the term "semi-displacement" because it linked semi-planing boats to the attributes of a displacement boat--- seaworthiness, ruggedness, etc.

But, these marine architects say, there is no such thing as semi-displacement.* A boat either is or it isn't.* It's like being alive.* You either are or you aren't.* There's no such thing as "semi-alive."*

There are various states of planing, however.* You can be partway up on a plane, mushing along partially (semi) suppoted by the hydrodynamic pressure on the underside of the hull, or you can be fully planing. Thus the term semi-planing is the term preferred by people to Fexas as it accurately describes what the hull is doing.

*
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Old 11-23-2010, 05:03 AM   #14
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RE: Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

"how about a semi displacement hull? Is the extra power worth it then?"

Old fuel is a big problem on displacement boats, that only burn a few gallons per hour.

(2) 400 Hp engines will de-fuel at 40 to 50 GPH , a great way to be assured of cleaner fuel.
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Old 11-23-2010, 07:38 AM   #15
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RE: Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

FF,
I have never had a problem with old fuel on my boat.
It sits for months on end and the fuel is allways good.
I drain off the water and keep the tanks in good condition.
Even at sea on any ship I have been on there are some engines that have pretty old fuel in the tanks (MGO) not heavy and it is never a problem.
I don't think I have seen an emergency diesel generator on a ship that has really fresh fuel in the tank and not much is used as the engine is only run for about 10 mins each week.
Unless there is some other additive in it diesel will keep pretty well.

Benn
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:52 AM   #16
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RE: Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

"I drain off the water and keep the tanks in good condition."

You are very lucky the builders installed a water sump, and method to get rid of the water.

Its Std on Navy Utilities like mine , where any amount of water can simply be drained , after standing a day or so.

The coat of a good fuel tank, as compared to a simple box of fuel, is tiny .

I have always wondered why owners of even the smallest boats would not DEMAND tanks that can easily be serviced.

The extra $100.$200. or so would be ca$h well spent , might even be considered an investment!
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Old 11-24-2010, 05:32 AM   #17
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Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

Quote:
Tidahapah wrote:Unless there is some other additive in it diesel will keep pretty well.
Uh oh, Benn, you're getting a bit too close to the yachtie rice bowl there ...


If it weren't for blisters and the danger of running engines at less than 75 percent power on old fuel with a cruise prop half the boating sites would go out of business.


-- Edited by RickB on Wednesday 24th of November 2010 06:33:14 AM
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Old 11-24-2010, 05:54 AM   #18
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RE: Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

You are very lucky the builders installed a water sump, and method to get rid of the water.

Lucky the builder of the tanks was me.
So they have a good sump with 1/2" drain line and a couple of good access doors.

Benn
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:37 PM   #19
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RE: Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

Benn
How did the Iveco engine serve you? Would you recommend it?
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:29 PM   #20
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RE: Engine transplant Fiat (IVECO) out Gardner 6LXB in

Jack,
The IVECO was good.
It had a rebuild 17 years ago and part of another story I had to stuffed it a bit to save the boat.
Parts are pretty hard to come by for this old NA model and very expensive out of Italy. eg exhaust manifold $3500.00 10 weeks delivery.
Once a few more things are stteled I will go into it more.
A friend has a smaller 6 cyl IVECO in his motor sailor and is very happy with it.
This is new and modern but not electronic.
They build a good engine.

The Gardner thing is something that is very much alive here and in the UK.
If some one is looking at buying a classic timber coastal cruiser here in Australia first question is does it have a Gardner.
Benn
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