Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-19-2015, 08:20 PM   #61
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,170
We are neither the fastest, nor the slowest; the smallest nor the largest; the most comfortable nor the most basic; the newest nor the oldest; the prettiest nor the ugliest. There are millions of boats on each side of the spectrum from us and we love the spot in which we fall because it works for us. I truly appreciate that every most boat owners feel the same way abot THEIR OWN BOAT and with it, have found their niche on the water.

Then there are those who are ready for something bigger or smaller or faster or slower to fit their new stage in life. It all makes perfect sense and allows many more to enjoy this passion we call boating. And I appreciate that there are others here and on the water who share my passion without picking apart the boat I call mine. Hey, let's face it...we could all choose to nitpick every other boat if so inclined, but that takes the fun out of every boat encounter. I prefer to celebrate our differences and make the most of the blessings I have.

Cheers!
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 08:36 PM   #62
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,707
Marin of course I believe what I believe. How else could it be? And RT a lot of guys agree w Marin. Me most of the time and often profoundly so. Especially when he talks about worldly matters whereas some of us have seen little of the world (me) and here on TF often look through Marin's eyes.
And I had no idea (before this thread) how much most here disdain 6 knots. Actually find it intolerable. That means Mark and I have more in common than I thought.
Many wonderful designs be it a boat or an ice scraper fall short in the marketplace that is hugely influenced by subjective emotions, styles and personal tastes. What's below the WL means little to most here but it's the real deal to me. I really liked several trawlers before I saw them undressed on the hard.

Every boat has a speed or more accurately put a speed range. Very narrow for FD boats and becoming wider as speed increases.

To again take a poke at what I'm talking about let's take a look at the GB 36 single. What is usually it's top speed? And what is it's displacement? To hear form several would be preferable.
__________________

__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 08:47 PM   #63
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
...
Every boat has a speed or more accurately put a speed range. Very narrow for FD boats and becoming wider as speed increases. ...
My normal cruising speed through water of 6.3 knots is not quite twice my idle speed of 3.2 knots (800 idle versus 1800 cruising RPM). Eleven-hundred RPM provides the five-statute-miles-per-hour "no-wake" speed. Maximum torque is at 1400, my minimum cruising setting.


__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 09:50 PM   #64
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,806
Eric, your not as alone as you think. I'm right down the street in the 7 knot neighborhood.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 09:56 PM   #65
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,254
[QUOTE=FlyWright;300296]... Hey, let's face it...we could all choose to nitpick every other boat if so inclined, but that takes the fun out of every boat encounter. I prefer to celebrate our differences and make the most of the blessings I have.
[QUOTE]

So true. ... My Coot would not be a sensible choice for fisherman Al. (Perhaps this version would be more suitable: http://www.dieselducks.com/Coot.html) While the Seahorse Marine version of the Coot has stainless-steel rails, the stern deck isn't big enough to hold chairs or table. The Coot's deck-level seat orients the person in the wrong direction. Also, the Coot's optional sail rig has stays interfering with the use of fishing rods. This isn't a negative for me since I "fish" at the supermarket.

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 09:57 PM   #66
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
To again take a poke at what I'm talking about let's take a look at the GB 36 single. What is usually it's top speed? And what is it's displacement? To hear form several would be preferable.
Eric--- Before we bought the cruiser we have now, we chartered a 1991 GB36 with a single Cummins 220 hp engine. We were told that the best cruise setting was 2000 rpm which gave the boat 8 knots pretty much right on the nose.

In contrast, we run our two FL120s at 1650 rpm, which gives us 8 knots.

I do not know what the top speed of the single engine GB36 is as we never had occasion to find out. My guess is that with the 220 hp Cummins at WOT it was in the neighborhood of 12 knots.

The displacement of the 1991 single-engine GB36 is probably slightly less than ours. Our boat by the Travelift scale is 30,000 pounds with full fuel, water, and all of our "stuff."

As the boat we chartered is a 1991 model, it would have been built somewhat lighter than our 1973 boat which, as fiberglass was a brand new material for American Marine, was overbuilt in terms of the hull and deck thickness.

The owner's manual displacement for our boat is 26,000 pounds empty weight. The single-engine version of our boat weighs appropriately less.

The GB owners forum manuals section does not contain a manual for a post-1988 single-engine model GB36, so I can only guess at its displacement. (1988 was the year American Marine began using brand new molds for the GB36 and GB42 and the boats changed a bit in terms of dimensions and layup). But I would guess that the displacement of the single-engine 1991 boat we chartered was in the 26,000-28,000 pound range.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 10:04 PM   #67
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,254
Thank goodness there are some boats available without the majority interest of twin engines and flying bridge.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 10:18 PM   #68
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
Many wonderful designs be it a boat or an ice scraper fall short in the marketplace that is hugely influenced by subjective emotions, styles and personal tastes. What's below the WL means little to most here but it's the real deal to me. I really liked several trawlers before I saw them undressed on the hard.
.
I don't know whether to find that statement insulting or find it humorous. Of course sales are influence by subjective views. You refuse to acknowledge that yours are equally subjective and emotions and personal tastes. There is no absolute measurement of what is best. It's all subject to how we each measure it, based on our personal preferences. If I set a minimum of 2 nmpg as the key measurement then my boats flunk. If I set a minimum of 15 knots then yours does.

Then to add that what is below the WL means little to most here but it's the real deal to you. Well, it's important to me, but that doesn't put me with a 35 hp Yanmar. Just because we reach different conclusions doesn't mean one of us is right and one wrong.

I respect those like you who love the boats you have and find 6-7 knots very acceptable. I think your boat is great in it's way. But whether you mean to or not you do come across as feeling that you are superior and smarter because you choose the boat you do.

Why can't you accept that there are thousands of different boats and just as many different tastes in boats and all those are fine and good. Yes, even the person out there who has a 90 knot capable Nortech or Fountain. Their boat is great in achieving their goal. I think Mark's Coot is an incredible boat just as I do your Willard. Not our choice but a very nice boat. I would never put down another's boat, nor would I ever put down a person for preferring a different boat.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 10:26 PM   #69
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,254
I don't hear anyone saying others' choice of boat was necessarily wrong.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 10:41 PM   #70
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
What's below the WL means little to most here.....
I think that's an extremely inaccurate assumtion. While a lot of boaters may not know all the forumulas for figuring out the right curve of a buttock line or whatever, I think most boaters are very cognizent of what their hulls look like below the water line and have reasons for liking (or not liking) what they have.

We selected the boat we did for our PNW boat precisely because it has a full keel that extends down lower than the rudders and the props, and precisely because it has a deep forefoot to help slice though the steep, closely spaced wind waves that are common on the inside waters, and preciscely because it has a flatter after section with sharp chines to reduce the roll amount and let us go faster than our cruise speed if we should feel we need to.

Our good friends with the custom lobsterboat know exactly how their hull works at speeds of 15 knots and at 9 knots and why faster speeds give a better ride in rougher water and about the effects their keel has on directional stability and speed. Again, they may not have all the hydrodynamics knowledge of how one arrives at a hull design like theirs, but they know damn well how it works and how to take advantage of it.

And of course I daresay that serious sailboaters probably know more about the finesses of underwater hull design than anybody.

So I think the notion that most powerboaters, particularly cruising powerboaters, don't care or know about the why's of their hull designs and are only concerned about whether or not they can fit a full-size Lazy-Boy recliner into the cabin is bollocks.

We may not have a design engineer's knowledge of how our hulls are shaped and why, but I believe most of us have a working man's knowledge of our hull's behavior and why it behaves the way it does and how to use the hull's design and behavior to our benefit. That's been my observation, anyway, based on the casual conversations I've had with boaters I've met on the docks or in the yard over the years.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 10:45 PM   #71
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,707
I'm almost shocked by your post BandB.

You and others have read into my posts things that definitely aren't there.

My "issue" is boats that have a very inappropriate amount of power only as it relates to their hull design. I'm not selling any speed to run for anybody or how much power to put into their boat.

If the GB 36 w the single FL120 won't cruise (as in dosn't have the power) at very near hull speed then it is an inappropriate engine (relative to power) or an inappropriate hull design. So it must do something a FD 36' boat won't do to justify it's hull design or amount of power w it's existing SD hull. If it can cruise above hull speed w the FL then in my mind or opinion that would justify the FL or/and the hull design.

But if it won't even make hull speed the justification for it's configuration isn't there. That would make it an inappropriate design. Then it should have either more power or a FD hull.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 10:54 PM   #72
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
If the GB 36 w the single FL120 won't cruise (as in dosn't have the power) at very near hull speed then it is an inappropriate engine (relative to power) or an inappropriate hull design..
A GB36 with a single FL120 easily exceeds hull speed by a bit in cruise (8 knots) and will do more than that if pushed. It won't go as fast as a GB36 with two FL120s (we get about 11 knots or so with our two FL120s at WOT and the props that we have), but it will probably do 9 or 10 knots depending on the prop. However nobody in their right mind will run the engines this way.

But late model GB36s with their more powerful engines (one or two, it doesn't matter) are often cruised at 12 knots, particularly by charter folks who don't have to foot the fuel bill.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 11:00 PM   #73
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
Why can't you accept that there are thousands of different boats and just as many different tastes in boats and all those are fine and good..
This is my notion of the perfect cruising boat (minus the armament) and the perfect cruising boat engine. It is so foreign to what Eric views as the perfect boat and boat engine that it's not even on the same planet. But my belief in what a boat should be is no more or less valid than Eric's or anyone else's.

And yes, Eric, I know exactly why this hull is designed the way it is and exactly why it works.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	PT-107.jpg
Views:	70
Size:	69.5 KB
ID:	36646   Click image for larger version

Name:	Packard 4M-2500.jpg
Views:	58
Size:	97.1 KB
ID:	36647  
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 11:06 PM   #74
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
Engine size when using twins

Well if I had to pick my next boat on no budget and wanted twins. I think it would be this one. Eric don't even try to tell me this is an overpowered/propped hunk of steel!Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByTrawler Forum1421726807.181977.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	121.2 KB
ID:	36648
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 11:07 PM   #75
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post

To again take a poke at what I'm talking about let's take a look at the GB 36 single. What is usually it's top speed? And what is it's displacement? To hear form several would be preferable.
They cruise at 7 - 7.5 knots with a 120 Lehman. If pushed to max rpm, they might hit 9 knots. So they run just fine at what I understand their hull speed to be.

And there is no on going over heating issue that I'm aware of with 120 FL. If the engine and cooling system are in good shape they'll run near or at max rpm all day long if for some reason you wanted to do that.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 11:14 PM   #76
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
This is my notion of the perfect cruising boat (minus the armament) and the perfect cruising boat engine. It is so foreign to what Eric views as the perfect boat and boat engine that it's not even on the same planet. But my belief in what a boat should be is no more or less valid than Eric's or anyone else's.

And yes, Eric, I know exactly why this hull is designed the way it is and exactly why it works.
Wifey B: Now that's one freaking weird boat. You must have celebrated the win yesterday too much....lol. It it's not too much trouble can I ask what the heck that is?

Just proves though that before you can even evaluate a boat you have to know it's purpose. I like speed. Lots of it. On the lake we had a perfect boat, a 30 ft bowrider that would run 55 knots. Definitely not for the coast so we sold it and started over when we moved.

People laugh at our tenders which are jet ribs capable of 30-40 knots. But we don't use them as shuttles to shore. We get out and explore. Some days we'll cover like a couple hundred miles in a rib. Boy did we have fun doing that in Washington, especially around some of the islands. Fun in Alaska too. But they'd be like insane for someone who just uses them to take the dog to shore to pee or anchors and then goes to the dinghy dock and that's all.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2015, 11:43 PM   #77
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,254
Marin, now you're wanting a boat with three engines/propellers and dark living spaces! Even worse, you'll need a separate crew member to control just the engines.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 12:38 AM   #78
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Marin, now you're wanting a boat with three engines/propellers and dark living spaces! Even worse, you'll need a separate crew member to control just the engines.
and?
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 01:03 AM   #79
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
and?
and what? where would Marin get the cannons, machine guns, and torpedoes to equip his boat? but no doubt he would be best able of all of us.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 01:21 AM   #80
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Marin, now you're wanting a boat with three engines/propellers and dark living spaces! Even worse, you'll need a separate crew member to control just the engines.
Actually Mark, we have a boat with three engines in it now. However, it's on the other side of the Atlantic. Our PNW boat is still the old slow-poke we've had for the last 16 years. :-(
__________________

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012