Engine Odometer Missing

[Raylee]

Hello and Happy Friday!

In our search for the next boat, we encountered a 1983 vessel without engine hrs Odometers on Detroit Diesels. The owner gives an estimate and such. However, the broker mentioned that a mechanic at survey time can open/look in a box/unit to derive the actual engine hours. The boat has not had a MOH but has been serviced 2 years ago according to the owner.

I have tried to google this process but could not find anything useful. I am sure experienced folks on this forum know about this way to get the hours and if it’s a reliable way to harvest the engine hours.

Thank you much

Raylee

 

[psneeld]

I would not think that older Detroit Diesels have computers that record the hours....but it just depends on the model/vintage of the engine.

Now some engines do have a gauge set right on the engine that if it includes a working hour meter (not odometer) might have the actual hours.

Too many brokers are not the best source of info.

 

[Comodave]

With the Detroits I would get an engine survey and if the engine is in decent condition then not worry about the hours. Not sure there is any way to determine the hours since they don’t have any electronics in those engines. I think the broker is blowing some smoke…

 

[tiltrider1]

I would like to know what model of DD and what type of boat it is in before commenting on engine hours.

 

[Raylee]

Thank you all for the comments. The engines are 671 Naturally aspirated on a Hatteras LRC. What concerns me is that the broker is somewhat abrupt and relays incomplete and occasionally the wrong information. I would hate to waste time flying over, pay for a survey and having to back out based on incomplete information as baseline. I know it’s part of the process. We have been lucky in the past to have brokers that provided photos, info, specs, etc to make us very comfortable prior to making an offer and ordering surveys.

 

[Comodave]

With 671NA they will likely last forever. They arent TAs so they probably can’t be over stressed. Get a engine survey and an oil analysis. As to the broker problem, does he have your info? If not find another broker to make contact and demand better info. If he has your info another broker probably won’t deal with you since the original broker will not split the commission.

 

[AlanT]

Agree with Commodave. At this age the engine survey & oil analysis if you can get one with hours in the engine behind it, will reveal way more than the nominal engine hours. They are great engines, I have the 8V92TA's on my boat which are successor motors. Your motors powered Tanks in WWII! The main issue to be aware of on mine is maintaining the cooling circuits.
~A

 

[tiltrider1]

With 671NA they will likely last forever. They arent TAs so they probably can’t be over stressed. Get a engine survey and an oil analysis. As to the broker problem, does he have your info? If not find another broker to make contact and demand better info. If he has your info another broker probably won’t deal with you since the original broker will not split the commission.

I am in agreement with Comodave.


What you need to do is make contact with an insurance agent (I recommend Peter at Novamar in Seattle) and a lender. Through these people or from members of TF I would find a good SAMS surveyor. The surveyor will really educate you on the boat. I rarely find a broker who is worth a s$*t. Once you do find a good broker, keep his number.

 

[fgarriso]

I have twin DD 6-71 N and they use about a gallon of oil a day (24 Hrs). But, they always start and run well. They have injectors set for 140HP @1800 RPM WOT.

 

[Comodave]

I have twin DD 6-71 N and they use about a gallon of oil a day (24 Hrs). But, they always start and run well. They have injectors set for 140HP @1800 RPM WOT.

I had 6V53s in a previous boat and they used/leaked about a gallon every 24 hours too. Just put diapers under them.

 

[Raylee]

Many thanks to everyone for comments and recommendations. It seems that the brokers comments about harvesting the engine hours are inaccurate. I will certainly make sure to find a good surveyor.

The broker does not have my info, I was just beginning to tell him when he jumped in to tell me about the boat and said he had to go as he was driving somewhere. Then called back a day later and without saying who is calling, he blurted out that new batteries were installed, said goodbye and hung up. He must be really busy.

I will reach out to my previous broker and see if he can help.

On another note, can the diapers really absorb a gallon of oil a day.. that sounds pretty intense. Where does one carry the extra oil buckets to refill the engines daily on 2-3week cruise through the Bahamas for instance. How does one dispose of so many oil-soaked diapers.. not sure that many marinas have the special containers for that type of recycling.


Thank you all again, your time, knowledge and willingness to share are much appreciated.

Raylee

 

[koliver]

Hour meters are notoriously misleading. Some boats have had more than one generation of meters, some have borrowed meters, some have none at all.
What can you learn from stated engine hours? Almost nothing, without some evidence that the hours quoted are accurate.
My boat came to me at 14 yrs old, with one operating hour meter, a log book from a previous owner showing a trip to AK from Vancouver and no other believable evidence of engine hours. I quickly changed out the hour meters for a new pair, both starting at zero. a few years later I swapped out the engines far a newer pair, along with their hour meters. That swap failed to include tachometers for the upper helm, so I found a pair, used, complete with inaccurate hour meters. If I sell my boat, someone looking at the present 4 hour meters will see a pair on the main dash that accurately tell the age in hours of the engines, but not the age of the transmissions, a pair on the upper helm with wildly different hours, unrelated to this boat and a forgotten pair near the main helm with those hours between my purchase of the boat and the engine swap. (That pair is mentioned in my last survey. How could a surveyor think that my old boat could have run for under 25 hrs per year for 43 years?).
My generator has its own hour meter, which accurately shows the age of the replacement generator, but not its age in years.

 

[SteveK]

Keith, why do you need hour meters in both locations? Fill the holes with another meter.

 

[Comodave]

Our Detroits used about a gallon per 24 hours run time. Most of that was burned, some leaked out. When I bought the boat the bilge was a mess from the leaked oil. The PO never took any care of it. It took me a while to get it cleaned up. But once I got all the oil cleaned up it was easy to keep clean. I did use quite a few diapers but in the big picture it wasn’t that bad.

 

[SteveK]

I have twin DD 6-71 N and they use about a gallon of oil a day (24 Hrs). But, they always start and run well. They have injectors set for 140HP @1800 RPM WOT.

You say the engine starts and runs well. Then it may not be burning oil.

Have you let them be at the new oil level? An overfilled engine will evacuate the extra oil. Ignore the dipstick marks and as long as the oil is shown on it use that mark as the guide. You should have an answer within a day.

 

[Juliet 15]

Thank you all for the comments. The engines are 671 Naturally aspirated on a Hatteras LRC. What concerns me is that the broker is somewhat abrupt and relays incomplete and occasionally the wrong information. I would hate to waste time flying over, pay for a survey and having to back out based on incomplete information as baseline. I know it’s part of the process. We have been lucky in the past to have brokers that provided photos, info, specs, etc to make us very comfortable prior to making an offer and ordering surveys.

I have a Hat 58 LRC with Dd 4-71 N engines. There's no way someone can tell you hours on them. You can get a good idea of wear (like, it still has roughly x % of its life left) by looking thru the side panels at the cylinders, piston skirts, rings, and cross-hatching. The panels are easily pulled and reinstalled (order gaskets ahead of time).


Feel free to contact me direct if you want to talk about these boats. I love them. Had it 5 yrs now.

 

[fgarriso]

You say the engine starts and runs well. Then it may not be burning oil.

Have you let them be at the new oil level? An overfilled engine will evacuate the extra oil. Ignore the dipstick marks and as long as the oil is shown on it use that mark as the guide. You should have an answer within a day.

The oil level is correct. They are known for leaking and using oil. We just know to add s gallon every 24-25 running hours.

 

[fgarriso]

I had 6V53s in a previous boat and they used/leaked about a gallon every 24 hours too. Just put diapers under them.

Thats what I do, they have alum drip pan under them also.

 

[SteveK]

The oil level is correct. They are known for leaking and using oil. We just know to add s gallon every 24-25 running hours.

OKay then. The PO of my boat told me he adds a quart In(?) hours too. I chose not to do that and the level has not dropped like stated. The level is just above the add level steady on two engines. This may work for others.

 

[Comodave]

OKay then. The PO of my boat told me he adds a quart In(?) hours too. I chose not to do that and the level has not dropped like stated. The level is just above the add level steady on two engines. This may work for others.

On our last boat we had Lehmans and they would use oil if you over serviced them. They would use it until the level got down to where they liked and then stop using oil. But on Detroits my experience is that they just use oil, probably because the tolerances on the engine are not as tight as newer designed engines. So you just fill them up and they just run and run. And every now and then swap out the diapers.

 

[boatnbump]

I had a set of Yanmars like that if you filled them to the line they would use a quart. If you left them a quart low the never used more oil.

On our last boat we had Lehmans and they would use oil if you over serviced them. They would use it until the level got down to where they liked and then stop using oil. But on Detroits my experience is that they just use oil, probably because the tolerances on the engine are not as tight as newer designed engines. So you just fill them up and they just run and run. And every now and then swap out the diapers.

 

[Comodave]

A lot of times it is due to the engine angle. The marks on the dipsticks may be off due to that. Bob Smith of Lehman fame said to drain the engines and then fill with the prescribed amount of oil. Then mark the dipstick and go by that mark from then on. But on my Detroits it didn’t seem to make a difference, they would just use oil no matter what.

 

[SteveK]

A lot of times it is due to the engine angle. The marks on the dipsticks may be off due to that. Bob Smith of Lehman fame said to drain the engines and then fill with the prescribed amount of oil. Then mark the dipstick and go by that mark from then on. But on my Detroits it didn’t seem to make a difference, they would just use oil no matter what.

Do all detroits do that, burn/leak oil?

I have known only had two brands of diesel, Lehman and Hino, both the same, find the level they like and hold that level for a long time, make note and mark the stick. Any gone after then is burn or leak. You only need enough oil to cover the pump pickup and show pressure on the gauges.

 

[Comodave]

You have to keep it mind that the Detroit engine, some of them anyway, were designed in the 1930s. 90 years ago. Machine tolerances were not like they are today or even in the 70s. The Detroit engines are extremely reliable and run forever. Parts are available and in comparison to other brands they are cheap. So it is a tradeoff. But you have to love the exhaust sound…

 

[OldDan1943]

I agree. Drain the oil, add the prescribed amount, re mark the dipstick and use that mark in the future as the ‘full’ mark.

 

[luna]

I agree. Drain the oil, add the prescribed amount, re mark the dipstick and use that mark in the future as the ‘full’ mark.

That works sort of, but you are missing the "Add Mark."

In Caterpillar speak, with a completely drained sump you add a prescribed amount of oil, then go for lunch.
Upon return, insert the dip stick and mark the level indicated as the "Add Mark"

Now add another prescribed amount of oil, go make some new coffee, grab a cup and now mark the "Full Mark."

Your dip stick is now calibrated.

My experience is that engines seem to prefer an oil level about half way between Add and Full. Lots of supply, less chance of air entrainment.

How would you know where that is if you only had a Full Mark?

 

[Juliet 15]

When I got my boat with its DDs, there were a few seeps. I slowly changed out gaskets. Now the only thing that still seeps (despite my gasket change) is the port side exhaust manifold. The DD guru whose brain I picked for several months said it's wet-stacking - I run them at 1300 rpm all the time, so apparently half-burnt diesel collects there, and eventually seeps out.



The starboard engine burns a quart every 20 or 30 hrs-ish.

 

[bumpkin]

Mine burnt some, not enough to wee while tooling around but the exhaust was always black and it leaked, a lot. I don't know of any that didn't leak.

 

[SteveK]

When I got my boat with its DDs, there were a few seeps. I slowly changed out gaskets. Now the only thing that still seeps (despite my gasket change) is the port side exhaust manifold. The DD guru whose brain I picked for several months said it's wet-stacking - I run them at 1300 rpm all the time, so apparently half-burnt diesel collects there, and eventually seeps out.



The starboard engine burns a quart every 20 or 30 hrs-ish.

I wonder if a few minute WOT might clear that up?

 

[jgwinks]

The oil level is correct. They are known for leaking and using oil. We just know to add s gallon every 24-25 running hours.

On the old tour boat with 8-71's that I ran, we only filled to the halfway mark. If you went above that they'd spray oil all over the engine room and your white uniform shirt. We did three hour trips and filled halfway they'd run three or four trips before getting to the low mark. That's boat was built in 1964 and had no clocks so no issues how many hours on them, but it was a lot. It's first life was as a Mackinac Island ferry and those run hard 12 hours a day.