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Old 07-13-2014, 04:00 PM   #1
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Engine Gen-Set Shopping Tips

Why does engine and gen set pricing information have to be so difficult to obtain online? Seriously, I can PM any of a half dozen broker/surveyors on this site and get sold boat info, the local boat dealer posts new boat prices, but nothing for engines.

Used equipment pricing is everywhere online but the moment I search for factory new equipment it's as though an NSA security firewall goes up and am referred to a local dealer. The local dealer website is of zero help for what seems should be very basic pricing information. I have better luck comparing the price on rare gemstone online than marine propulsion.

Is there something obvious I am overlooking here? All I'm attempting to do is obtain some very basic pricing info to assist us in researching our options. It's not like I'm seeking hard quotes or anything. Used equipment pricing is of no use to me as my only interest is factory new.
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Old 07-13-2014, 04:21 PM   #2
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Well, I think that the reason manufacturer's direct you to their dealers and dealers won't post prices on-line is that 1/3 of the price of a new genset installation is the installation work itself. And that varies all over the place.

But... Here is some data on both ends. A new Northern Lights 5kw will cost about $14,000. At the other end of the spectrum, a NextGen 5KW will cost about $7,500. Both with sound shield.

And FWIW read the threads on generator sizing. Most boaters install a size or two too big for best efficiency/longest life.

David
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:28 PM   #3
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Thanks, that is quite helpful David. Would you happen to know a ballpark price on a 150 hp Volvo and 180 hp Yanmar?
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Old 07-13-2014, 06:16 PM   #4
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Well, yes and no. I assume that you are talking about the new BMW based Yanmar, the 4BY series. And for Volvo it would be the D3 series.

New Marine engines cost about $100-150 per horsepower.

YMMV,

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Old 07-13-2014, 06:34 PM   #5
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Yep. 4BY-180 and D3-150. $100-$150 per HP is close enough for the sake estimating. Basically $15-$27K for the lump in a crate is what I should expect.

Thanks again David. I love this forum, shoulda asked here first.
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Old 07-13-2014, 06:40 PM   #6
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Figure out what engine you want and request quotes from many vendors. Dealers, boat builders and boatyards can get good (sic) pricing on engines and some of them need to make a quota to keep their pricing... and are eager to move a pair. Shop around. But first, figure out what you want so you don't cycle them unnecessarily.
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Old 07-13-2014, 06:57 PM   #7
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That's exactly what I wished to avoid Ski I understand how valuable these guys time is and why I wanted some generic numbers to work with. I have no desire to bug a dealer for a quote until I know exactly what I want and its go time. It really would help if they at least published list prices on their websites.

Engine and generator numbers where the only things missing for my research. I have a lot of very fresh, unused horsepower sitting in my bilge which can save me $9,000 on an upcoming custom Jeep project. Contemplating killing two birds with one engine swap really.
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Old 07-13-2014, 11:15 PM   #8
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Why does engine and gen set pricing information have to be so difficult to obtain online? Seriously, I can PM any of a half dozen broker/surveyors on this site and get sold boat info, the local boat dealer posts new boat prices, but nothing for engines.

Used equipment pricing is everywhere online but the moment I search for factory new equipment it's as though an NSA security firewall goes up and am referred to a local dealer. The local dealer website is of zero help for what seems should be very basic pricing information. I have better luck comparing the price on rare gemstone online than marine propulsion.

Is there something obvious I am overlooking here? All I'm attempting to do is obtain some very basic pricing info to assist us in researching our options. It's not like I'm seeking hard quotes or anything. Used equipment pricing is of no use to me as my only interest is factory new.
I can tell you why... its based on territory.

Engines and generators are sold the old fashioned way with a limited amount of dealers in a specific area. Selling out of your territory is generally not allowed.

The reason for this is, and I do not agree with it is getting the unit serviced. Local dealers have been known to refuse to work on a generator for example unless you buy from them.

I know this to be a fact because I run a business in a very closely related field. My firm was responsible for breaking my little nitch out of the old territory sales model into what I consider the modern competitive world. Now a decade and a half later we compete on price, and product knowledge, and timleness of delivery.
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:02 AM   #9
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I can tell you why... its based on territory.

Engines and generators are sold the old fashioned way with a limited amount of dealers in a specific area. Selling out of your territory is generally not allowed.

The reason for this is, and I do not agree with it is getting the unit serviced. Local dealers have been known to refuse to work on a generator for example unless you buy from them.

I know this to be a fact because I run a business in a very closely related field. My firm was responsible for breaking my little nitch out of the old territory sales model into what I consider the modern competitive world. Now a decade and a half later we compete on price, and product knowledge, and timleness of delivery.
That's what I always had heard...

The marina I'm at just switched hands and I had been wondering how they were advertising outboards when I knew there were marinas only 3 miles away that were already dealers.

I was told that at least the outboard manufacturers were loosening that old style "territory" mentality and letting new places be "limited" dealerships that could sell up to a certain number of motors each year so to keep existing customers happy and in house for service, etc.
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Old 07-14-2014, 10:29 AM   #10
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That's what I always had heard...

The marina I'm at just switched hands and I had been wondering how they were advertising outboards when I knew there were marinas only 3 miles away that were already dealers.

I was told that at least the outboard manufacturers were loosening that old style "territory" mentality and letting new places be "limited" dealerships that could sell up to a certain number of motors each year so to keep existing customers happy and in house for service, etc.
The "firm territory" business model will eventually go away.

It was effective in the days of limited communication where a customer would come in, talk, and get a brochure. Its role was to protect the hard work of the local dealer, so he would not be undercut by a guy in the next town over. It also kept the warranty work local.

Today, with so much information at our finger tips that business model is breaking down. The problem is that now, with free market competitive pricing some companies have found that they can be efficient, and reduce the profit margins required to make a overall profit. Some merchants are willing to accept so low of margins that other merchants are unwilling to represent those products because they cannot make a profit. This has led to something you see allot in marine electronics called "minimum advertised pricing" policies being set by manufacturers.

Once the local dealers realize that service work is a profit center, and a much larger profit center than the original sale of the generator or engine then you'll see changes in that industry.
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