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Old 08-02-2011, 09:06 AM   #1
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Engine diagnosis

I was out doing a little trolling for silvers this past weekend when the motor stopped.

A Cat 3208 n.a. I restarted it and it ran for about 15 seconds then stopped again and would not restart.

A*friend towed me to the harbor and we began looking for the problem. I changed all the filters then re-primed the fuel system with the hand pump on the engine still nothing.

Diagnosis:

I think there may be an issue with the ignition switch. As*I began, (about a few weeks ago.) *to get a voltage drop that would shut down all systems connected to key on** *.i.e. the*GPS system.

When* I had to leave the boat I was trying to check for continuity on the fuel solenoid. I had run a jumper to it to by pass the ignition switch and did get 14.2 volts at the solenoid. I didn't have time to un hook the hot wire to the solenoid to check for contunity.

The next time to the boat I am taking a new ignition switch and a new fuel solenoid.

Question:**What indications are present when the injector pump dies. I did crack an injector and cranked the motor and got nothing for fuel at the injector. I went back to where the fuel enters the injector pump to open the fuel line to see if I was getting fuel to the pump and snapped off the connector at the flange on the injector pump ( need a new one of those too). Any ideas on what this could be?

I am looking at

#1 ignition switch

#2 fuel solenoid

#3 injector pump.

Any think I am over looking here?

SD

*

*

*


-- Edited by skipperdude on Tuesday 2nd of August 2011 09:26:38 AM
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Old 08-02-2011, 10:12 AM   #2
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RE: Engine diagnosis

Quote:
skipperdude wrote:
Any think I am over looking here?
Not meaning to be sarcastic but your troubleshooting fell apart after you ensured the fuel supply to the engine was OK. I read your comments as to mean you changed the primary and secondary filters and had fuel out of the secondary, is that correct?

You know you have or had a problem with the ignition switch and you jumped it out to supply power to something that applied voltage to the fuel solenoid.

So far so good.

Did you check electical continuity of the fuel solenoid?

Did you hear or feel the solenoid operate when you applied power to it?

Did*you try to start the engine*after you had*power to the solenoid?

If not why did you start taking stuff apart and risk damage and contamination before moving to the next device downstream of the final fuel filter?

Try to avoid skipping around aimlessly and don't replace parts that might not be broken. That is called "throwing parts at it until it works" and is what boat owners complain the loudest about when a mechanic is called in to solve the problem.

You were on the right path but for some reason went sideways.

*

*
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Old 08-02-2011, 10:24 AM   #3
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RE: Engine diagnosis

Well I just ran out of time. I had power run to the solenoid and it still wouldn't start in all the confusion I can't recall if I heard it working or not.

To get out of*Whittier I have to go when the tunnel is open or wait another hour. The first thing I will do is check contunity on the solenoid.

I have to take all the parts with me when I go to the boat next. It is a 3 hour run to Anchorage and back and nowhere to get parts other than to make the run. That's the reason for taking all the parts with me when next I go to the boat.

SD

*
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Old 08-02-2011, 10:47 AM   #4
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RE: Engine diagnosis

Wow, that's a difficult scenario you've got there for doing any sort of methodical troubleshooting. I thought I had it bad with the closest Cummins dealer 1hr away! Good luck, SD, hope you nail the gremlin on your next attempt!

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Old 08-02-2011, 11:06 AM   #5
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Engine diagnosis

I think you need to find out if the fuel soelenoid is working or not. You should be able to make up a set of jumper wires and give it 12v direct from the battery. That way you will be right at the solenoid and*should be able to hear it click (or not).

I don't know how a Cat 3208 is configured....can the solenoid be manually operated?


-- Edited by jleonard on Tuesday 2nd of August 2011 11:06:54 AM
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:26 AM   #6
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Engine diagnosis

Quote:
jleonard wrote:
I think you need to find out if the fuel soelenoid is working or not. You should be able to make up a set of jumper wires and give it 12v direct from the battery. That way you will be right at the solenoid and*should be able to hear it click (or not).
*Thanks I was trying to do just that but the last tunnel out of Whittier is at 10 pm and I had to leave or spend a sunday night untill 8o the next morning.

Work seems to have a way of getting in my way,

I talked to a Cat tec he told me to install a gauge to check pressure at the injector pump it*requires an*adaptor and a 40 psi. gauge. I will install one if I can find an adaptor for the gauge. Most are 1/4" the place I need to install it is 9/16 straight thread

SD


-- Edited by skipperdude on Tuesday 2nd of August 2011 11:37:47 AM
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Old 08-02-2011, 12:48 PM   #7
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RE: Engine diagnosis

To check you electric if it is a plunger type hold the lever in the run position and it should start and run. If it is the sov type that bolts direstly into the pump you should be able to remove it to take the little plunger and spring out if it, them re assimble, prime, and start. Remember you will not be able to shut the engine off with the key if you do this so plan on choaking the engine down another way to shut it off. This may be too much for the novist to do so consider safety first.
Injector pumps rairly go bad and are expensive to fix. Be dam certain that you fuel supply is clean. Unless you can look into your tank and see the bottom dont ssume it is. Boats are a terrible enviroment for fuel. Rig a jerry can for a fuel tank to isolate the fuel tank and see if the problem goes away.
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Old 08-02-2011, 01:09 PM   #8
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RE: Engine diagnosis

Quote:
cd30ketch wrote:
To check you electric if it is a plunger type hold the lever in the run position and it should start and run. If it is the sov type that bolts direstly into the pump you should be able to remove it to take the little plunger and spring out if it, them re assimble, prime, and start. Remember you will not be able to shut the engine off with the key if you do this so plan on choaking the engine down another way to shut it off. This may be too much for the novist to do so consider safety first.
Injector pumps rairly go bad and are expensive to fix. Be dam certain that you fuel supply is clean. Unless you can look into your tank and see the bottom dont ssume it is. Boats are a terrible enviroment for fuel. Rig a jerry can for a fuel tank to isolate the fuel tank and see if the problem goes away.
*I had given that some thought I talked to a tec and he sugested the same thing but to just remove the solenoid and try and start the engine with the solenoid out. I am a novice so this sounds risky. I can choke her off as I have a plug that someone made for the air intake .I guess for just such a condition.

Thanks for the response

SD
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Old 08-02-2011, 05:24 PM   #9
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RE: Engine diagnosis

We use to keep a clipboard handy to lay over the intake. You can also crack the injector lines till it dies.
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Old 08-03-2011, 04:59 AM   #10
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RE: Engine diagnosis

Just loosen the output of the solenoid to see if fuel is getting by.

Since the solenoid is simply an electrically controlled valve a mechanical valve would work also for testing , or with a cable to replace the solenoid.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:22 AM   #11
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RE: Engine diagnosis

I have decided to take Mr Rick B's advice and look at this as purely a fuel issue and I believe that what I really need to do is bleed the injectors.

When*I replaced the filters the Racor was plugged due to contaminants from a nasty bout of weather and a bit of sloshing around of tank sediments.

The 2 micron filter on the engine was only 1/2 full when I removed it.

I believe I had air get to the injectors and I now need to bleed them.

First I intend to thoroughly clean the Racor and replace the filter again.

The procedure is to crack all the injectors and using the primer pump as much as possible attempt to prime the injectors with the fuel solenoid removed. next to start the engine and close all the injectors one at a time.* Or if I get some help two people on the injectors at once.

I will also be installing a gauge on the injector pump. and taking a new solenoid and ignition switch*along just in case.

Thanks for all the advice I hope*I get all of this stuff nailed down.

I need to get her going again the Silvers are still running.

SD**
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:33 PM   #12
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RE: Engine diagnosis

Got her running again . Turned out to be the fuel silenoid.

Didn't even have to bleed the injectors .Changed the solenoid and she fired right up

It's tough when your boat is broke. All good now. Thanks for all the advice. Greatley appreciated

SD
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Old 08-08-2011, 05:31 PM   #13
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RE: Engine diagnosis

Awesome!!
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