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Old 04-18-2013, 11:42 AM   #141
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Reuben,

Weight is the issue on something as small and light as the Aspen. As efficient as the hull is, I would think (16) of the 700 a-hr cells would work at 752 lbs. Some weight would be saved by not needing an AC gen set. But then there is also the weight of the panels and their effect on the vessel's CG.

In all the many tests you have preformed, have you determined the hp a 2.0 L diesel puts out at idle (idle rpm and idle throttle setting)? I can't imagine it being much more than 1 hp.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:10 PM   #142
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Solbian makes the lightest panels - pricey since they use Sun Power cells. I feel that the aluminum frame can be removed on typical panels ($1/watt) with a lighter mounting system engineered - my current thinking is to have these unframed panels actually be the roof.

I have NO idea as to idle HP of any motor. My guess is that there are HP/speed curves for the Aspen available?

If you look at the fuel/HP curves of most modern diesels, they hit their sweet spot at RPMs about 1/2 of the max - after the turbo has kicked in. Of course, this is much more than your displacement speed if you're using 2.0 liter motor.

Yep. You save the generator weight but add the hybrid motor and controller weights. Add a good water maker to save on the weight of stored water.

Keep one 12v starting battery for navigation and starting just in case your LI goes down. I like the MeanWell DC/DC converters, too. I have yet to find a good DC/DC charger, though.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:39 PM   #143
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Thanks Reuben. I have no trouble finding hp graphs for different rpm, but all are generated at full throttle. The fact that the Aspen at idle (700 rpm) manages 3 kt with a fuel burn of 0.2 gph just had me wondering what shaft hp that was. For the 12 volt systems I'll still go with LiFePO4 for both weight savings and charge acceptance. So much onboard is dependent on that voltage, engine start, lights, bilge pump, windlass, fridge and freezer, electronics, and of course my HAM SSB HF radio that I enjoy so much while boating.

I agree with that sweet spot for diesels. It is the rpm that the engine is at its highest volumetric efficiency, which is at its torque peak which is roughly 1/2 max rpm.

Can't the output of a DC/DC converter be bumped up a bit for charging?
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:27 PM   #144
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Bob - I tried keeping the DC/DC converters bumped up, but eventually, the batteries that were in line with the converters died. So I just took them off line and recycled them. The only need I have, other than engine starting, is the windlass - it will not work from a power supply alone.

I run most my 12v systems from these converters with are distributed in the four corners of the boat. Since switching to the LI battery, I kept the key navigation gear on a starting 12v battery so I can always find my way home. I'm a neophyte when it comes to LI - only had the battery operational since the first of the year. Once I get more comfortable, I'll rewire the navigation gear to the DC/DC converters with an A/B switch should I need it in the future.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:14 PM   #145
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Today we are day tripping on Sunshine in the Florida Keys. 5 knots plenty of sun. Life is good!
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:44 PM   #146
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Well it is good to see Sunshine isn't just a test bed, that you get out and enjoy her. I guess your 5 kt is all flowing electrons and no dead dinosaur juice?
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:01 PM   #147
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Reuben,

A couple of years ago I had asked the question on the Cruiser's Forum "Why isn't any diesel engine manufacturers producing small, lightweight turbocharged engines under 50 hp?" That is when I first was made aware of Steyr Motors and their 80 Kg (176 lb) turbocharged 1067 cc engine that produces 36 hp. I believe you are the first person I know using Steyr engines, so have to ask, what was your experience with the company and/or the US distributor? Also if you have the time, how do you like those engines and the engineering of the electric motor interface? You mentioned that you might go with pods next time. Is this for their good vessel maneuverability, or the increase in efficiency due to the 0* angle of the prop?
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:23 PM   #148
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Diesel Electric propulsion, the Seisventurer is a 90 mtr. 270 ft boat with Diesel Electric propulsion.

The E-motors have a rated power of 1100 kW. The 3 Diesel engines are rated 2480 HP each. Maximum speed 16 kn.

I worked in the design of the E systems of this extremely special boat.

Attached her specs as pdf.
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:25 PM   #149
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Add a good water maker to save on the weight of stored water.
What powers this water maker that can make water nearly as fast as it is consumed?
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:39 PM   #150
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A modern watermaker takes about 30 w-hr per gallon and the smaller ones run on 12 volts.
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:11 AM   #151
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So, how much power does it take to move a tank of water around vs make it?

You guys seem to have slipped the surly bonds of rationality and practicality in pursuit of the milliwatt.
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:46 AM   #152
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So, how much power does it take to move a tank of water around vs make it?

You guys seem to have slipped the surly bonds of rationality and practicality in pursuit of the milliwatt.
Ahhhh I've missed you Rick! Glad to see you're back mate!

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Old 04-21-2013, 10:11 AM   #153
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Spectra makes DC water makers that use hydraulics to make high pressure rather than the noisy high pressure pumps most water makers use. These units in their economic mode consume minimal power per gallon and can be run 24/7 producing more than enough water.

For anyone traversing oceans or living on board on the hook, water actually becomes quite important. Making it on board saves weight and space.

When you are continually storing energy from sun and wind there is no good reason not to use it. People always ask why we don't cook with LPG? The answer is that it is an electric boat - why hump LOG when you can just turn on an induction cooktop.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:58 AM   #154
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So, how much power does it take to move a tank of water around vs make it?

You guys seem to have slipped the surly bonds of rationality and practicality in pursuit of the milliwatt.
Maybe, maybe not. On multihulls, weight is a real performance killer. Most cruising sailboats have watermakers.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:04 AM   #155
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weight is a real performance killer. Most cruising sailboats have watermakers.

That is because most cruising sailboats are stock boats where water quantity is not a huge concern.

The pre watermaker method of using a water catcher on the sun covers , or slacking the main during a shower has worked for thousands of folks for many decades.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:34 AM   #156
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weight is a real performance killer. Most cruising sailboats have watermakers.

That is because most cruising sailboats are stock boats where water quantity is not a huge concern.

The pre watermaker method of using a water catcher on the sun covers , or slacking the main during a shower has worked for thousands of folks for many decades.
True, but when I was anchored out from Santispac in the Sea of Cortez, I was glad I had a watermaker. No rain for 4 months.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:37 AM   #157
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True, but when I was anchored out from Santispac in the Sea of Cortez, I was glad I had a watermaker. No rain for 4 months.
Been there...experienced that.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:49 AM   #158
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Walt,

You have been to my "secret" spot. Did you soak your bones in the cruiser's built rock hot tub that is fed by hot springs on the shore's edge?
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:58 PM   #159
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Walt, You have been to my "secret" spot.
When I said "been there...experienced that", I meant the Sea of Cortez and months without rain. We hear a lot about the PNW, Maine, the Delta, etc. but the Gulf of California (Sea of Cortez) is some of the best cruising I've ever done. Talk about great weather, deep blue water, sea life, (Giant Mantas jumping right in front of the boat, Dorados ripping across the water with their dorsals showing, Sail Fish, Marlin, Yellow Fin, Squid, you name it, it's in the Sea of Cortez. (Including Orcas!) Coves to pull in to and dive over the side to cool off. Other cruisers that share a potluck in a desolate anchorage, not to mention the myriad of unusual boats they cruise in.

The Sea of Cortez, truly a magical place. My sister in law (80 yrs old) still maintains a beautiful home in San Carlos and is still active with her kayak, ATV, paddle board and snorkel gear. She's an amazing woman.
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:35 PM   #160
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Oh yes, all the above. In your travels Walt, did you get to what I call a bay within the bay, Bahia de Conception? It is just south of Muluge.
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