Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-21-2013, 12:04 PM   #81
Veteran Member
 
City: newport
Country: usa
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisjs View Post
Or you could go for diesel powered space ship??

I'm in ... But I will have to get some longer hoses for my fuel trucks
__________________
Advertisement

Craig Schreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 03:17 PM   #82
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by intjonn View Post
I finally found where to begin my search for the motor I need:

General Dynamics Electric Boat

...and as I wrote I did not come here for a social expereince so moderator/admin you may close this thread and remove all posts.

Thanx & Ciao........INTJonn

I hope he buys the motor and it sinks the boat with all his money.

Hard to believe some people.

SD
__________________

__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 03:58 PM   #83
Veteran Member
 
City: Pender Island
Country: Canada
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 70
electric sailboat

Check out the electric powered sailboat, used as a backup to the wind --- Kijiji -- Victoria........ private sale .. moored North Saanich Marina .... super clean looking boat(IMO)..private sale..... john
Lucy 11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 04:46 PM   #84
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,714
I saw a thread on BoatDesigns.net that probably had just what the OP had in mind finding.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 12:56 AM   #85
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: Somewhere
Country: , Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer sedan 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,872
So which thread was it? Save a lazy man a search, please.
C lectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 07:07 PM   #86
Guru
 
City: coos bay
Country: usa
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by intjonn View Post
Hi; I've just joined this forum and am interested in feedback/info re an electirc powered trawler:

My idea is to buy an 1980's ish trawler; fiberglass; approx. 34' to 38'; no flybridge; something along the lines of a mainship pilot but doesn't need to be one specifically. don't care about the condition of engine or interior per se' but want a solid hull.

Replace engine with a low rpm high torque electric motor and fuel tanks with rechargeble lithium-ion battery bank; install solar panels along with foldout 'wings' for additional solar radiation collection; also install some type of wind generator..........

Thats the basic thesis; would like info on types of motors, batteries; solar panels etc; anyone done this??; etc.

I'm somewaht amazed that in this day where its time to get off fossil fuel that the over a hundred years old idea of larger electric powered boats is not utilized........ intjonn
would need to be a diesel electric so you can run at night or during bad weather. I'm thinking alone the same linws as you
__________________
Britt
bfloyd4445 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 07:11 PM   #87
Guru
 
City: coos bay
Country: usa
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by skipperdude View Post
I hope he buys the motor and it sinks the boat with all his money.

Hard to believe some people.

SD
well today i was reading an add for a company maqking 60 footer's that are driven by a tiny little joystick. I mean a real boat is supposed to have a wheel not a tiny joystick that steers and controls the engines.
__________________
Britt
bfloyd4445 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 07:34 PM   #88
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,181
It's true that I wouldn't want to give up my helm wheel, but since I've been reading the thread on Automatic Pilots, I want my joystick too.
healhustler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 08:25 PM   #89
Senior Member
 
deckofficer's Avatar
 
City: Northern California
Country: US
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 409
Well folks, I'm new to this forum also, and unlike the OP, I enjoy the social aspect of forums. Check my history on the Cruiser's Forum.

I'm starting out a bit more modest in my plans for electric propulsion. I did my thesis on minimum wetted surface vessels (fast ferries) at CMA. I have assembled the components and have an electric kayak. I know there are already electric kayaks, but I don't know of any that have the range of mine.

First is energy storage, and even though we have had some good advances, we are still a long way from the energy density of fossil fuel. This is where we are now

LiFePO4, not as energy dense as other lithium designs, but a whole lot safer.
This is one of the two 12 volt batteries I've assembled with 3.2 volt 100 a-hr cells. 1/2 the weight of a LA group 24 at twice the capacity.


A series string.


Two, so an outbound battery and a return battery.


The best range I've seen for an electric kayak is 16 nm with the typical 60 lb group 24 deep cycle battery. With 60 lbs of LiFePO4, 80 nm range. With thin film solar panals I'm looking forward to some great kayak camping in the Sea of Cortez.


For a quick charge along with a meal and drinks at marinas, this 50 amp charger only weighs 8 lbs. Got to love switching power supplies that do away with heavy transformers.
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 08:46 PM   #90
Guru
 
City: coos bay
Country: usa
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by healhustler View Post
It's true that I wouldn't want to give up my helm wheel, but since I've been reading the thread on Automatic Pilots, I want my joystick too.
so your one of them kinda guys thats gotta have a little stick to play with at the helm?.........

But who am i to talk i love gadgets

I'm tired of all the clutter and would like to try everything kind of put together. With a nice large touch screen display it is possible to have deptsounder, gps, ais, radar, chartplotter, compass weather all together so why not the autopilot as well?
One glance and its all there, if you can see it with all the new clutter occupying the extra space. I am about to build a windows machine with the intention of using it on board this way if i can figure out how
__________________
Britt
bfloyd4445 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 08:53 PM   #91
Guru
 
City: coos bay
Country: usa
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
Well folks, I'm new to this forum also, and unlike the OP, I enjoy the social aspect of forums. Check my history on the Cruiser's Forum.

I'm starting out a bit more modest in my plans for electric propulsion. I did my thesis on minimum wetted surface vessels (fast ferries) at CMA. I have assembled the components and have an electric kayak. I know there are already electric kayaks, but I don't know of any that have the range of mine.

First is energy storage, and even though we have had some good advances, we are still a long way from the energy density of fossil fuel. This is where we are now

LiFePO4, not as energy dense as other lithium designs, but a whole lot safer.
This is one of the two 12 volt batteries I've assembled with 3.2 volt 100 a-hr cells. 1/2 the weight of a LA group 24 at twice the capacity.


A series string.


Two, so an outbound battery and a return battery.


The best range I've seen for an electric kayak is 16 nm with the typical 60 lb group 24 deep cycle battery. With 60 lbs of LiFePO4, 80 nm range. With thin film solar panals I'm looking forward to some great kayak camping in the Sea of Cortez.


For a quick charge along with a meal and drinks at marinas, this 50 amp charger only weighs 8 lbs. Got to love switching power supplies that do away with heavy transformers.
The beauty of electric is its so so quiet and vibration free. very addicting
__________________
Britt
bfloyd4445 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 09:12 PM   #92
Senior Member
 
deckofficer's Avatar
 
City: Northern California
Country: US
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfloyd4445 View Post
The beauty of electric is its so so quiet and vibration free. very addicting
Yes! and very relaxing. Water fowl and fish are not bothered when I cruise into their domain. My next cruising boat, be it another sailboat or power trawler will have a diesel-electric hybrid propulsion. I've used this for work and am spoiled at the precise power delivery at rpm that is much lower than what any diesel can idle at, all the way down to 1 rpm. No more clunking in and out of gear in those tight spots. Not to mention all available torque at 1 rpm.

As a sail boater I'm at the mercy of fickle winds like this dad and his girls, as I cruised up in my electric kayak.
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 09:27 PM   #93
Guru
 
City: coos bay
Country: usa
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,203
also the tremendous torq of electric allows eficient low rpm use
__________________
Britt
bfloyd4445 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 09:35 PM   #94
Senior Member
 
deckofficer's Avatar
 
City: Northern California
Country: US
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 409
This was my last ship (rig) I served on. (6) 5,000 hp electric thrusters backed up by (7) 4.3 MW Cat gen sets.




Yours truly
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 10:09 PM   #95
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,996
Greetings,
Mr do. Quite impressive both in theory and practice. I think what the OP didn't realize was exactly what you wrote: " we are still a long way from the energy density of fossil fuel..." With the mass the OP was trying to move, over what we could only guess, distance, present storage technology is not "there" yet. Thanks for the pictures...
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 11:03 PM   #96
Senior Member
 
deckofficer's Avatar
 
City: Northern California
Country: US
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 409
RTF,

The examples others posted to this thread, it is doable but the correct parameters have to be met. The one example that wasn't mentioned is this one,
transatlantic21: The world's first crossing of the Atlantic on a solar boat

They pulled it of with a commercial use catamaran and lead acid batteries. Pretty low tech, but light and efficient hulls.
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 11:58 PM   #97
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,996
Greetings,
Mr. do. One thing I never found out, or maybe I missed it, was what range OP wanted. What I understood was he wanted a source for a specific motor or it's civilian equivalent. He stated he, his daughter and a friend had designed a system. What I didn't understand was why he appeared to be trying to re-invent the wheel when you and others quoted several examples of "successful" electric boats. Surely a bit of research would have turned up what they were using.
To put it in it's simplest form you have a vessel weighing W tons you want to move through the water at X speed for Y distance. Therefore you need Z power and a way to renew that power either by the mains or solar. I can't do the arithmetic but it would seem fairly straightforward to me.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 12:21 AM   #98
Senior Member
 
deckofficer's Avatar
 
City: Northern California
Country: US
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 409
I think the OP was flying by the seat of his pants. One boat that was mentioned was the Island Pilot DSe (diesel solar electric) that almost fills the bill other than aesthetics. The idea was to max surface area of deck and pilot house with 6 KW worth of un-shaded solar panels. Their first choice of batteries were Odyssey 2150 AGMs, too heavy, not enough storage or energy density and should not be cycled below 50% DOD. Later they changed out to LiFePO4, much better by a factor of 4 on energy density and can cycle 2000 times down to 80% DOD. They didn't size the bank for what those solar panels could offer. If they had, then with 5.5 hours of sunshine per day, it would have been able to cruise at the stately speed of 3.9 kt for 24 hours. Covering 90 nm per day on just solar is pretty good in my book. This first and only boat they built is now for sale, and chances are someone that doesn't understand the systems and limitations will buy it, bad mouth it, and set back electric propulsion. This happened with a French cat sailboat that had hybrid propulsion and was used in the charter service. I'm still hearing all the negatives on that, and another black eye for electric propulsion.
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 11:58 AM   #99
Senior Member
 
rjtrane's Avatar
 
City: Palmetto Bay
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sunshine
Vessel Model: Island Pilot DSe 12m Hybrid
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 268
Yes, You Can!

The key to a pure electric powered boat is modest expectations. Having owned Sunshine (our prototype DSe 12m) since we launched her in 2008, I feel I can speak with experience.

At the time of building Lithium batteries were not developed to the point where we felt they were worth the price. Our initial 400 AH/48 v Odyssey battery lasted just about 5 years. When due to be replaced, we DID use Lithium, upping the capacity by 250% (to 1,000 ah) and using the same space and weight. Now we have the electric "gas tank" that we need.

We also used 6kW of solar panels (forget making your own, you can now buy them for less than $1/watt) - from Sun Power (who still makes the highest efficiency cells commercially available) at about $4.50/watt. I would love to have more but felt that cantilevering cells out over the water was not commercially viable.

What we felt was the best hybrid solution shipping at the time (late 2007) was the Steyr parallel hybrid. Today there are multiple solutions available for parallel and serial hybrid and as you are desiring, non-hybrid, pure electric.

Now for your expectations:

1. Modest. By modest, I mean limited speeds for limited distances with enough power left over to get you through to the next charging cycle. We feel that we can sustain about 3.5 knots indefinitely with 6kW of solar array. This was the average speed of a similar catamaran that crossed the Atlantic using Sun Power cells several years ago.

2. Modest. While on the hook, budget your energy use - turn off the lights when you're not in the cabin (most mothers taught us this growing up). Use air conditioning rationally. Equip the boat with energy saving equipment - LED lighting - induction cooking - high tech refrigeration.

3. Modest. Keep weight down as much as possible. You won't have a heavy iron diesel, but you will have a heavy Lithium battery. This is one of the big mistakes we made with the DSe - we wanted her to compete in the luxury trawler market - so we made her interior as finely finished as any made in Asia. Unfortunately, that interior is heavy.

4. Long and Lean - we are working on a trailerable, shippable, electric (hybrid optional) cruiser to compete with the 30 footers. To do this, we'll make her 12 meters long with a center hull of 7' wide - sponsons will extend port and starboard for balance and walk-arounds. The center hull has a water-line beam of 36". The longer and leaner the hull(s), the less resistance up to hull speed. Look at the hulls of rowing shells.

5. Simple interior - maybe use canvas products for stowage and surface coverings. Light counter tops (no granite).

6. Add small wind - a wind turbine rated at 1 kW - 1.5 kW will actually produce around 350 watts on average, day and night, day after day.

7. If you're not a purest (but I feel you might be?), add a 48v DC generator - the smallest one from Fischer Panda will do.

8. Add a 3kW or bigger shore charger. Run all your current from shore to the charger then from the battery to DC/DC converters for 12v loads and intertrer(s) for 120v/240v loads.

9. Our feeling is having an expectation of about 25 NM/day at up to 5 knots (calm). If you need to cross the Gulf Stream to Bimini (about 50 NM), you'll have keep your speed at 3.5 knots or less. Expect to stay at anchor no less than a day or two to build up a depleted battery.

In spite of the nay sayers above - it can be done. Yes, you cannot go into a store and buy one off the shelf. But, you may be old to recall, you couldn't buy a computer off the shelf either. Didn't mean computers didn't work, just you couldn't buy one. You could lease one from IBM or build one yourself.

First step is to find a suitable multihull sailboat to buy - I like the Vietnamese ones that have fold out sponsons (tri-hull), though a good cat will work OK, too. A cat will need two motors rather than one and you may have to break the battery in two to fit.

That should be enough for you to consider?
Attached Files
__________________
Reuben Trane
"Sunshine" - Island Pilot DSe 12m
rjtrane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:10 PM   #100
Senior Member
 
rjtrane's Avatar
 
City: Palmetto Bay
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sunshine
Vessel Model: Island Pilot DSe 12m Hybrid
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 268
Sunshine is NOT for sale!

Bob,

I hadn't seen your post when I wrote my wordy one above. For just the reason you mention, we are not selling Sunshine. She is a great test-bed for further development, but not to everyone's taste. That said, she works great within the parameters I mention above.

Thin film. I haven't seen any of that lately - didn't know it was still under development. If so, my guess is that is is uber inefficient in watts per sq. ft.?

Solbian (Solbian Energie Alternative - Pannelli Fotovoltaici Flessibili) has exclusive access to Sun Power cells and configures great panels that ARE efficient. Expensive, too!
__________________

__________________
Reuben Trane
"Sunshine" - Island Pilot DSe 12m
rjtrane is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012