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Old 01-17-2013, 07:36 PM   #21
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I think they must've been able to run more than just a couple of miles on electricity, though admittedly not very fast.
All wars are big when you are in them.

The range of those boats submerged on battery power was just under 100 miles at about 2 knots. The later Guppy conversions had about the same range but at twice the speed.

A Guppy could go up to 16 knots for about a half hour on batteries.

At maximum submerged endurance we would run out of breathable air and battery about the same time.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:43 PM   #22
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As an example, Balao class (WWII) submarines were advertised with 48 hour submerged (battery power only) endurance at a hair over 2 kts. Battery charges were furnished by divvying up the 5600 hp or so from the diesels between propulsion and battery charging. As I recall, it took 208 tons of battery to make it all work.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:43 PM   #23
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The Redwing would be an ideal trawler for most skippers here. I only wish the trawler manufacturers of the 70s and 80s built most of the trawlers w a hull like this and a reasonable amount of power. I don't care much about the hybrid part of it but the boat itself is basically the perfect trawler. My opinion.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:46 PM   #24
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Well this is more interesting than I first imagined. Not that I think it's practical as a trawler, but there is potential and I learned something:

Electric boat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Mary Gordon Trust

And then I found this, a modern diesel electric design:
Redwing Hybrid 40 - Power Cruiser/Trawler - Boat Plans - Boat Designs
Dave thanks for posting this.
The Redwing would be an ideal trawler for most skippers here. I only wish the trawler manufacturers of the 70s and 80s built most of the trawlers w a hull like this and a reasonable amount of power. I don't care much about the hybrid part of it but the boat itself is basically the perfect trawler. My opinion.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:55 PM   #25
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Ok, well intjonn, the OP, might have got off on the wrong foot a bit back there, but he does raise an interesting subject. The usual snags with solar electric power and practicality have all been raised, but it is of interest there are several versions out therein production which are actually available to buy.. i went over the Greenline Trawler myself at the last Sanctuary Cove Boat Show, and was impressed with the quality, layout and technology behind it. Hoever, it is a solar-electric drive with diesel backup.See link below.
Greenline*33 (2010-)*2010* Reviews,performance,compare,price,warranty, specs,Reports,Specifications Layout, video | BoatTEST.com

On the other hand, there is a fully solar electric only powered vessel which has circumnavigated, but to be able to do that, it has to look like this....
planetsolar: the first solar-powered boat around the world

See, solar power DOES work! Catamaran completes round-the-world trip powered only by the sun (pity it took two years) | Mail Online

Which I think most on here would agree is not really practical - yet. However, what if down the track, someone invents a hugely more efficient, and large capacity type of electrical storage unit (ie battery), then what might be possible. The solar panels are also going to become more efficient and powerful over time as well. So we should not write it off, but I think the OP might be on a hiding to nothing for now, unless he just enjoys the challenge of trying, and does not much care how useful what he ends up with is. All the same I'll be interested to hear progress, intjonn, and good luck with that.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:12 PM   #26
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There is a manufacturer of small--- up to 22 feet--- electric-only launches called the Duffy Electric Boat Co. Duffy Electric Boat Company - The world's leading manufacturer of electric boats since 1970.. There is a company that rents them on Seattle's Lake Union.

The endurance time given for the 4,300 pound, 22' model is 3.5 hours at a top speed of 6 mph or 7.5 hours at cruising speed which so far as I could determine from their site is 4 mph.

So not exactly what I would call "coastal cruising in a diesel cruiser" endurance. I believe their boats are recharge-them-at-the-dock boats as opposed to having a method of recharging batteries while underway.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:24 PM   #27
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:02 PM   #28
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Marin;]"There is a manufacturer of small--- up to 22 feet--- electric-only launches called the Duffy Electric Boat Co. Duffy Electric Boat Company - The world's leading manufacturer of electric boats since 1970.. There is a company that rents them Seattle's Lake Union."

There is a red one for sale on our marina, $35,000 ONO.

Peter

I saw the Greenline at the Sydney Boat Show, I agree it is a very interesting concept. Excellent weekender, great hot weather boating set up.

Have we lost Intjonn already?
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:33 AM   #29
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Maybe we were wasting his time.....
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:25 AM   #30
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Maybe we were wasting his time.....
Or he was wasting our time!
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:24 AM   #31
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lots of dreamers think an electric boat might work.

If you wish to join a discussion , mostly experienced folks and NA's on why it is not yet practical,

Boat Design Forums

is the place to dig in the archives.

Someday perhaps , after batts get 10x better perhaps ,
now a cruise at 4K for a mile or two does not justify the monster expense.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:19 AM   #32
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Thank you to those of you who gave positive nonemotional based; non sociogenic info/responses:

Electric boats have been around for over 100 years so there is nothing new in that regard. in fact it was the internal combustion engine that put them out of business shortly after WW1 - WW1 mind you not WW2 : German U boats during WW1 (again WW1 - not WW2) utilized electric motors while submerged.......... so, no new idea at all - far from it.

The problem has been how to recharge the batteries (not the batteries mind you; again dependable, rechargeable batteries have been aronud since before WW1) and that issue is now resolved: As I've previously mentioned the Navy's SDV is completely electric; can power a 17 ton vessel; fully submerged upto 8 knots to a range of some 45 miles........

The motor & batteries are built obviously to complete underwater COMBAT spex and is not necessary for my use........ hence the idea is not KNEW and the technology is available. I just don't know where to find it and evidently no-one on this site does either. My guess is the motor is Classified but whoever manufactures the motor for the Navy's SDV certainly makes somekind of a commercial grade civilian equivalent........

Lithium-ion batteries are easienuff to get hold of but till I have a motor I don't really know how many I'll need nor how to wire them.....

The solar panels are also relatively easy to track down........

Am looking for a non flybridge type boat with a relatively flat hard top to outfit the entire top with panels also to include fold out 'wings' in order to double the overall solar collector area if/when desired.........

Also, a good freind of mine is PhD MIT EE and my adopted daughter is undegrad EE ; Purdue and the 3 of us have already ; on paper designed this system..... I need to know where I can find the 'parts'; so if you can help me great! if you can't thats great too! as this is only one place to look. I thought by some slim chance that someone on this site maybe has already done something similar as I can't belive I'm a 'pioneer' of anything.........

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Old 01-18-2013, 07:36 AM   #33
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Are you also interested in wind generators to assist the solar in charging batteries?

How about fuel cells?

Are you willing to get much or your recharge from marinas...or only from nature?
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:41 AM   #34
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I just remembered. The article was in the wooden boat magazine and the builder was Ted Moores. Here is the link to the page and I'll try to get a picture for you.
http://www.woodenboat.com/sites/defa..._mar11_toc.pdf
Bottom right of pdf file is the article.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:30 AM   #35
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Greetings,
Mr. intjonn. I think the major stumbling block in this exercise is not a specific motor but current battery technology that several members have already alluded to. It might be to your advantage, if you have not already considered this, to determine how much weight your totally stripped out hull will be able to carry. Weight and space will determine how much "fuel" (as in electrical) you will have available.
I seem to remember that it takes about 40HP to drive a hull at hull speed. The way I figure it that's about 30KW. I'm sure you've "crunched" the numbers as to what range you can ideally expect and how long it will take to replenish your "fuel" given the limited area of solar cells you will be able to utilize.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:30 AM   #36
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The amount of battery bank you'll need relative to your given choice of vessel simply doesn't pencil out- nor does the amount of solar cells required to maintain said battery bank above 50% of charge.

There is no secret or anything magic about the SDV- it has a 36 mile combat range. The DSV/DSRV carries a massive amount of batteries and still has limited endurance.

I'm not saying it can't be done- innovation can and does happen. I applaud your initiative to investigate the road less traveled. However, you come here to start what could be a great discussion, and your narcissistic attitude precludes you from participating in a constructive way. Get off your high horse, discuss rather than direct, and you'll be amazed at what the brain trust here can come up with.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:02 AM   #37
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There is a local Port Townsend friend of mine who spent a number of years and a significant amount of money to design and develop an electric drive cruiser. He did extensive tank testing to develop a hull that had good handling, easily driven, and good lines while being suited to the Pacific NW. His model was a boat that could carry a couple about 50 miles at around 6kts under battery alone. It had a long length to beam ratio and resembled the old forestry yachts that once plied Canada and the North. It was designed with solar built into the roof, but had backup diesel generator assist.
It was intended to be able to do a three day cruise to a 50 mile destination and back under battery alone with charging at the destination. He was at the point to start his first hull when the economy went south and he chose the wise direction to put the project on the back shelf.
The boat was to be built cold molded and as light as possible to be able to carry a literal boat load of batteries.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:58 PM   #38
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Quote:
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There is a manufacturer of small--- up to 22 feet--- electric-only launches called the Duffy Electric Boat Co. Duffy Electric Boat Company - The world's leading manufacturer of electric boats since 1970.. There is a company that rents them on Seattle's Lake Union.

The endurance time given for the 4,300 pound, 22' model is 3.5 hours at a top speed of 6 mph or 7.5 hours at cruising speed which so far as I could determine from their site is 4 mph.

So not exactly what I would call "coastal cruising in a diesel cruiser" endurance. I believe their boats are recharge-them-at-the-dock boats as opposed to having a method of recharging batteries while underway.
They rent and sell the Duffy on Lake Union. The owners where live aboard nieghbor of our when moored on lake union. I beleive most had a small engine to charge the battiers in necessary?
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:15 PM   #39
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To attempt to drive a battery powered vessel at hull speed when one knot slower requires HALF the power (or less) would be FAR from ideal.

Perhaps the ideal boat would be a 40' aircraft carrier w maximum solar panels. You'd stand out at the yacht club for sure.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:16 PM   #40
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Nope- Duffy are 100% eco plug in boats.

Duffy Electric Boat Company - The world's leading manufacturer of electric boats since 1970.
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