Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-15-2012, 10:03 AM   #21
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Singleprop View Post
Is a flame arrestor required in your diesel tank vents?
ABYC standard (H-33.13.3) requires a flame arrestor "that can be cleaned, unless the vent system is itself a flame arrestor." A little study will explain what that means and how it can be accomplished.

If you charter your boat then 46CFR182.455 applies and includes more detail on the screen and mesh required.
__________________
Advertisement

RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2012, 11:00 AM   #22
Senior Member
 
honeybadger's Avatar
 
City: Hampstead,NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: HoneyBadger
Vessel Model: 1990 Harkers Island Trawler Typical wooden hull with a Carolina flare and no deadrise at the stern
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 194
Yes Rick i had a coast guard inspection and it was explained to me. that the fuel,lowpoint drains, water seperators, and even the battery bank can all be in the bilge on a Diesel boat,None of the electrical items have to be spark proof, Where with Gas its another story. The pick up needs to be 3/4 of a inch from the bottom i was told that its a bad idea to pull your fuel from the bottom of the tank But Lowest point drain ( Oh yes ) good thing to have,
__________________

honeybadger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2012, 05:05 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Boatgm's Avatar
 
City: Manila
Country: Guam / Manila
Vessel Name: Carabao
Vessel Model: Home built power tri
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 100
I always try to install a low point drain on the tank top with a stand pipe and roll the plate where I can to reduce the welding. Also try not to return fuel to bulk tanks, just to your day tank (the hot fuel causes condensation). I use dip sticks on the bulk tanks and sometimes a sight gage on the day tank. After you run the boat for awhile the fuel burn becomes fairly predictable. If you must have a gage Gems reed switches work for years.
Boatgm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2012, 02:08 AM   #24
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,573
Late to this, but Nigel Calder has some good ideas on design and materials,see "Cruising Handbook" pp213-215. He does not like s/steel or aluminum tanks.At page 208 he deals with fitting a "fuel sampling/draining line" at the lowest point of the tank,ie lower than the feed line, with a manual pump to draw off water & sediment. I was sure he had a diagram of a tank with an extra sump lower than the tank floor,but can`t find it.
My diesel man successfully drew off the water/sediment from screw in plugs,without valves,he didn`t fill the bilge with diesel, as I would have, must be a skill to it. I`m guessing the reason valves don`t get fitted is because they would get stuck.BruceK
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2012, 02:19 AM   #25
Scraping Paint
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
ABYC standard (H-33.13.3) requires a flame arrestor "that can be cleaned, unless the vent system is itself a flame arrestor." A little study will explain what that means and how it can be accomplished.

If you charter your boat then 46CFR182.455 applies and includes more detail on the screen and mesh required.
Interesting. Never thought that a system could be designed to be a flame arrestor.

Has anyone looked into how a vent system can be designed as a flame arrestor?
Singleprop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2012, 09:37 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
stevensibs's Avatar
 
City: Rockport
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Still Sibsie
Vessel Model: 42' Bristol Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 157
Well I re-read all the posts regarding the design and fabrication of my two diesel tanks and after speaking with loads of people I've decided on fiberglass tanks. I will have spring-loaded bronze ball valves at low point of tanks with plugs for added security; 2" straight fills; large inspection ports on top made of G10 FRP 3/8" thick, sitting on Nitrile gaskets; sight gauges with more spring-loaded ball valves and chemical resistant PVC tubing; baffles also made from G10 FRP 3/8" thick; stand pipes, fuel return lines and polishing lines all from ESI as well as the Racor filters and fuel manifolds; (which I just received); fittings on top for topside venting; and all resin will be vinyl ester or epoxy, haven't decided which yet. Have I forgotten anything?
__________________
Steve and Sibsie
42' Bristol Trawler
member ABYC
www.sibsie.com
stevensibs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 06:33 AM   #27
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,531
Put Fiberglass tanks in my boat as Diesel will not bother glass,

True , but if the gov demands some percent of "bio fuel" the GRP tanks may not stand up to it..

Talk to the tank builder FIRST!
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 09:53 AM   #28
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,372
For FRP tanks, Epoxy lined is the way to go. Check with a few boat builders or suppliers who use Epoxy lined FRP tanks for diesel to insure right Epoxy is used. They are not all created equal.

A properly designed and installed steel tank will outlast you and your boat.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 12:03 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
stevensibs's Avatar
 
City: Rockport
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Still Sibsie
Vessel Model: 42' Bristol Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 157
I agree about the steel; the ones I took out lasted 30 some years then failed. But I'm worried about rust on the INSIDE...I am planning this boat's long cruise on a single Lugger engine with a ESI fuel polishing system but I've heard horror storie in here about rust. Aluminum is defo out. Am I wrong to worry about steel?
__________________
Steve and Sibsie
42' Bristol Trawler
member ABYC
www.sibsie.com
stevensibs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 01:09 PM   #30
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,372
Steve, here is my take:

Well designed steel tanks are perfectly fine provided you keep the water from pooling on the outside and can drain/empty the tanks completely. A 3 stage filter system ala Tony Athens will protect you from most dirty fuel issues and problems. Most important, fill up from a known source wherever possible.

On new tanks, no matter what material was used, a complete cleaning before the first fill is essential. Internal construction debris is all too common.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 01:41 PM   #31
Guru
 
Hendo78's Avatar
 
City: Perth
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: M/V SOLSTICE
Vessel Model: Hendo "Special"
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,275
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevensibs View Post
Aluminum is defo out.
I'm curious as to this. Why is it Aluminium tanks are frowned upon? I have two so am wanting to know what it is I am not aware of before its too late :-/

iPad Forum Runner
__________________
***I use and recommend ANCHOR RIGHT Anchors***
Hendo78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 01:54 PM   #32
Senior Member
 
stevensibs's Avatar
 
City: Rockport
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Still Sibsie
Vessel Model: 42' Bristol Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 157
Aluminum has a reputation in the boat industry of being installed quickly, cheaply and usually incorrectly. I personally had two failures due to water being trapped beneath them, and know of quite a few failures of aluminum tanks in my general boating area...some only 10 years old.
__________________
Steve and Sibsie
42' Bristol Trawler
member ABYC
www.sibsie.com
stevensibs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 01:58 PM   #33
Guru
 
Hendo78's Avatar
 
City: Perth
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: M/V SOLSTICE
Vessel Model: Hendo "Special"
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,275
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevensibs View Post
Aluminum has a reputation in the boat industry of being installed quickly, cheaply and usually incorrectly. I personally had two failures due to water being trapped beneath them, and know of quite a few failures of aluminum tanks in my general boating area...some only 10 years old.
Oh ok. :-/. Thanks for the reply.

iPad Forum Runner
__________________
***I use and recommend ANCHOR RIGHT Anchors***
Hendo78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 03:53 PM   #34
Guru
 
windmist's Avatar
 
City: Port Orchard, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Violet A
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 42
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
For FRP tanks, Epoxy lined is the way to go. Check with a few boat builders or suppliers who use Epoxy lined FRP tanks for diesel to insure right Epoxy is used. They are not all created equal.
I put FRP tanks in the Cacade 36 trawler I built about 12 years ago. I was told by an experienced boat builder to build them using vinylester resin rather than epoxy. I don't remember the reason but for sure, you don't want to use the standard and cheaper resins used in normal boat building. Vinylester is suppose to stand up to biodiesel. The bad part of using vinylester is that we had to grind the tanks between layers of glass if allowed to set up or so I was told. I also hired an experienced fiberglass guy to build these tanks. We built the water tanks using epoxy.

I have FRP tanks in my current Helmsman 38. I like them because I don't think condensation is a problem with FRP tanks. I may be wrong...

Ron
windmist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 04:32 PM   #35
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevensibs View Post
Am I wrong to worry about steel?
In my opinion, yes. You yourself have said you've seen steel tanks go 30 years. And I know of some boats---GB woodies-- from the 60s that still have their original iron tanks.

You are putting new tanks in the boat no matter what.. So the question is, are you still going to be running your boat in 30, 40, 50 years when the new steel or iron tanks you put in today finally need replacing?

Far better, in my opinion, to install new, properly made steel or iron tanks mounted in such a way that moisture cannot collect under or on top of them than go with fiberglass with all the variables possible in their layup plus the potential risk FF mentioned.

The only alternative to steel/iron that I believe is worth pursuing are the composite tanks being used today by companies like Grand Banks. But they are WAY expensive.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 04:51 PM   #36
Guru
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Vessel Name: Anastasia III
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,716
You could always coat the inside of steel tanks with aircraft fuel tank sealer when they're built. Epoxy or other coating on the outside.
Keith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 06:19 PM   #37
Senior Member
 
City: Hampton Bays, N.Y.
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Grand Yankee
Vessel Model: 1981 49' Grand Banks Classic
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 326
Maybe not a flame arrestor but a screen to keep bugs out of vent line. Vent lines-the bigger the better.
Ron T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 06:58 AM   #38
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,531
IF I were building a boat today I would select modest sized rotorcast polly fuel and water tanks .

Sure a proper Monel tank set would be better , but the life of polly seems to be unlimited (like the monel) so the downside is the slightly more complex installation.And the inability to have a more complex shape , like a sump directly under the fill port.

A polly tank grows after being 1st fueled , so the drill is to put it in place on its shelf , fill it with fuel and in 48 hours foam it in place , or secure it as you see fit.Then transfer the fuel to the next tank, and let it grow.

With about 40G small enough to not require internal baffels , a series of tanks would be required for long range capacity.

This would not be a problem as the 40G tank would feed about a 100G genuine monel DAY fuel tank. OR a deep but narrow polly day tank

The advantage is when the cruise is over the 40G tanks would be de-fueling by running it thru the noisemaker or heating plant or diesel range.

Eventually ONLY the snap to maintain day tank would hold fuel, so no bugs , no problems .

As said in the Graduate decades ago, Plastic is the future!

Either steel or aluminum tanks work fine BUT they MUST be installed properly.

PAY to read the issue of Pro Boat Builder to find out whats proper!!!Your boatyard may not have a clue!!

There is little rusting inside a steel tank , as even with water in the tank oxygen is also required.

A bottom drain solves the water in the fuel hassle cruedly.

A proper sump solves the water in the fuel problem to perfection.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 08:25 AM   #39
Veteran Member
 
Third-Reef's Avatar
 
City: Santa Barbara, California
Vessel Name: Fleur De Lys
Vessel Model: 1988 Nova 36 Sundeck
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 56
Tony Athens provides a nice description of building in fuel tanks using FRP in the "Sunstar rebuild" article on Boatdiesel.com. Very informative and hits alot of the must have and should haves for FRP tanks. If you have not joined for the $25? you should.
Third-Reef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 10:31 AM   #40
Senior Member
 
stevensibs's Avatar
 
City: Rockport
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Still Sibsie
Vessel Model: 42' Bristol Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 157
I have a lot to consider. "Third Reef"...I did join boatdiesel.com and will look for that article, thanks. "FF", I considered poly, but heard strories of diesel smell permeating in and out of the poly. Also the "growing" issue, so 'm a little wary. 'Boat Pro Builder'...is there a link? "Kieth", the stuff you're talking about in airplane tanks, that's a good idea! I'll check with some of the airplane mechanics at work. Plus the steel tank fabricator I'm talking to says he'd powdercoat the outside. "Marin", what kind of composite tanks on GBs? Thank you all for the valuable input. Anything else you can think of would be appreciated!
__________________

__________________
Steve and Sibsie
42' Bristol Trawler
member ABYC
www.sibsie.com
stevensibs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Diesel fuel tank repair - internal coating Keith Power Systems 20 06-24-2017 06:45 AM
Follow up to cutting out a diesel fuel tank Fighterpilot Power Systems 8 03-14-2012 06:16 AM
gasket to diesel tank dannyboy General Maintenance 2 02-02-2012 12:08 AM
Sight tubes on Diesel Tank norseman Power Systems 10 02-02-2010 06:00 PM
Fuel tank Question Monterey10 General Discussion 7 12-08-2009 01:48 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012