Diesel Engines at the Playschool Level

[Bennett Schneider]

I'm looking at a 40' Eagle trawler with twin Yanmar diesel engines. I have no experience with diesel at all. This boat is a handyman special and the yard is willing to give the boat away for a song. I'd like to start the engines but at this point, I have no idea of their condition. The yard has no history on the boat at all. Before I hoop up some batteries, turn the key and cause a lot of damage, what steps should I take before I turn the key?
I know this is elementary to many of you but I'd really appreciate any advice you can give short of "run away" from that boat. Are there books out there that can walk a newbie through the process of assessing an unknown engine?

Thanks all,

Ben

 

[Pau Hana]

I'm looking at a 40' Eagle trawler with twin Yanmar diesel engines. I have no experience with diesel at all. This boat is a handyman special and the yard is willing to give the boat away for a song. I'd like to start the engines but at this point, I have no idea of their condition. The yard has no history on the boat at all. Before I hoop up some batteries, turn the key and cause a lot of damage, what steps should I take before I turn the key?
I know this is elementary to many of you but I'd really appreciate any advice you can give short of "run away" from that boat. Are there books out there that can walk a newbie through the process of assessing an unknown engine?

Thanks all,

Ben

If the vessel is in the water, have the yard start it up- if damage occurs, it's on them.

Before committing, I'd have the vessel surveyed- mechanical and hull. This may save you tens of thousands in the long run.....

 

[Ski in NC]

Did the boat sink in Sandy? If so, it is a bigger project than most want to take on.

First thing is go check oil level, coolant level, transmission gear oil- If any oil sumps overfull there may be water in sumps. Look for rust on valve gear through oil fill cap. Put a wrench on crankshaft bolts and try to rotate engines. A moderate push on a 32" breaker bar should rotate engines. Don't try to force if stuck, sometimes injection hdw stick and if forced, break. If stuck, that's bad.

If that checks out, try to find a local mechanic to do a quick look, and possible startup. This can be done on the hard if you have garden hose, or pull impellers. A few hours of mechanic time can find 80% of the issues.

 

[eseyoung]

nothing really. Check the oil. make sure you have water supplied to the raw water pumps if it is in the water all the easier...just make sure the sea cocks are open.

If its on the hard then put the raw water intake hose into a bucket and keep the bucket filled while runnign.

Other than that maybe check the water/ sediment bowl on the fuel filters. crank her over and hope for the best.

Obviously, get permission from the yard/owner before doing anything of if they are willing get them to do it.

 

[dimer2]

Yards don't normally give things away, unless they got it somewhat cheaper than they giving it away for. So how does a yard acquire a boat...

Unpaid repair bills, which for you, is a good thing and easy to check
Uneconomical to repair, where the owners bring it in for repair and find out the repair is more than the boat is worth and walk away.
Salvage. The insurance company has written it off.

I hope you have found a great deal but would try to find out some history before doing anything. Just my two cents.

 

[Xsbank]

The money you will likely spend on this one, and the time, why not buy one you can use now?

I can't think of an upside to this one, except the brand of boat is nice, except its Taiwanese, except it has two very expensive diesels, except it might have been sunk...

If the yard is "giving it away" it's not worth it to them to fix it and sell it for a profit.

Sorry, you should oh right, I'm not supposed to say that........

 

[Bennett Schneider]

Thanks for everyone's input. I know for a fact that the boat is not Sandy damaged. The boat was actually in a covered berth during Sandy and what damage she did sustain was topside when the tide lifted her up into the rafters. Mostly cosmetic. Keep the input coming. I'm taking notes and learning a lot from the folks on this site.

Thanks,

Ben

 

[janice142]

MOST "free" boats are too expensive. And if a boatyard with crew available can't or won't fix for profit that should tell you more than enough. I'm sorry.

But I do wish you good luck.
For advice though: get a boat you can use TODAY. Handyman specials are dream killers in disguise. And because your question is so basic I'm thinking this is beyond your capabilities.

I wish I could be more positive. Bringing a boat back is far more complex than you can imagine. And define "complex" as EXPENSIVE.

 

[Bennett Schneider]

Thanks Janice. The boat isn't free. The problem is that the yard was just taken over by a person who has no idea how to go about selling boats. Normally I wouldn't even have walked into the place but I saw this boat and it caught my eye. There is work that will need to be done and I'm sure it will take many years but I am planning on doing the Loop when I retire and I've got some years until then. In the meantime, I'll work on this boat little by little. The boat is in the water now...looking a bit tired but she seemed to perk up when I walked past her on the dock.

 

[kulas44]

Are you a diesel mechanic, are you a finish carpenter, are you an electrician. Are you close to being any of those things. If not, run, run, run, then run faster.

 

[Ski in NC]

If it is floating at the dock, it is definitely worth a closer look. Could be a gem under a layer of grime, or could be a total POS. Check it out. Boats on the hard are often there to die. Boats in the water have a better chance of being functional before they were abandoned.

 

[dimer2]

Seems she may have winked at you, so...

Get a friend who owns/knows boats to come have a good look at the boat with you. (if you have no friends you should look for a smaller boat lol), He/she should be able to determine if, for the price, the boat warrants a survey. Get both a mechanical and hull survey done if worth it. Proceed as you wish.

Good luck

 

[psneeld]

Don't run....don't panic...don't think that you won't wind up spending as much as you think you are saving.

I bought a boat at 1/2 the price that a "sail away" one cost. 3 years later I have spent 1/3 to 1/2 of the difference in cash and almost non-stop labor.

I knew what I was getting into and I do have average to above average boat repair skills from glass work to electronics to engines.

You don't have to be a skilled carpenter unless you want "yacht finish"..you don't have to be a mechanic if you do all the grunt work and pay for the tech stuff that matters...you can learn a lot of the electrical/plumbing stuff along the way from "good guys" that will guide and help along the way.

Not every boat has to be "high tech", "yacht finish", "world class", "blue water fit" etc...etc.... Mine will never be but after buying a POS..within the first thre years she has gone from Ft Lauderdaqle toi Jersey, Jersey to Brunswick, Ga and return...and now back to Florida and back home in a month. That's almost 6000 resonably trouble free miles with just plodding along and fixing what needs to be to move and the cosmetics are slowly coming along.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. B. Well, if it's in the water now, get the yard to fire it up as Mr. PH suggested. Yup, you'll have to pay for the privilege but it's a start (If they do-pun intended).
Keep foremost in your mind that as mentioned a "free" or "give away price" vessel can suck your funds in the same fashion as a flock of mosquitoes can drain your blood. Slowly but surely.
If you don't mind, how much is a "song"?

 

[alormaria]

All of the above is true but remember that time spent messing about in boats is not deducted from your lifespan.

 

[ksanders]

My concern is that if you are asking questions like this, why are you even considering a handyman special.

Are you experienced in working on boats in some other way?

You sound like a nice sincere guy, but it sounds to me like you're setting yourself up for problems.

 

[Xsbank]

Cleaner
Polisher
Mechanic
Problem solver
Plumber,
Corrosion specialist
Electrician
Painter
Varnisher
Scraper
Carpenter/cabinet maker
Not to mention
Navigator, boat handler
Knot tie'er
Splicer
Rigging specialist
Small engine (outboard) mechanic
Dinghy maintenance
Safety specialist
Cook
Provisioner
Fisherman
BBQ specialist
Drinker

And I forgot to mention, accountant and banker

 

[FF]

>
My concern is that if you are asking questions like this, why are you even considering a handyman special.

Are you experienced in working on boats in some other way?

You sound like a nice sincere guy, but it sounds to me like you're setting yourself up for problems.
__________________<

CORRECT!

 

[sunchaser]

Sure why not have a good look and as previously suggested get the engines going before purchase. Please post some details as to engines. Also insure no salt water intrusion into ER, don't take anyone's word for it "only floated up."

BTW, seldom is a good boat is ever given away, especially by a half way good yard. Not knowing how to sell boats is a lot different than knowing the cost to get to cruising trim, the yard owner likely knows the score.

 

[janice142]

Thanks Janice. The boat isn't free. The problem is that the yard was just taken over by a person who has no idea how to go about selling boats. Normally I wouldn't even have walked into the place but I saw this boat and it caught my eye. There is work that will need to be done and I'm sure it will take many years but I am planning on doing the Loop when I retire and I've got some years until then. In the meantime, I'll work on this boat little by little. The boat is in the water now...looking a bit tired but she seemed to perk up when I walked past her on the dock.

Part II of my answer is thus:
You're planning on buying a boat NOW for use in "many years" and that's a recipe for financial disaster. Let's just say for example's sake that your dockage is $500 a month. That's $6000 per year until you leave. (you do the math there)

Next, nothing stops failing just because you're not using it.
My Bebi Owl (anchor light) quit this past week. I'm not sure why (connections appear stable/might be the switch) but without me touching it, it failed. Nothing on this potential boat of yours will stop deteriorating while you wait to cruise.

However if you told me you found a 25' weekender you can use/play with today (this afternoon!) I'd say go for it. The bigger gems will be there when you're ready to go on the Loop -- even this one.

I just wrote an article for my website that offers a bit of restraint in the face of your current decision making process. It might be helpful:
Janice142 article Dreamer to Boater: Books

Use caution. Too many boats at marinas started out as a good idea, or worse, a great price and sit unused and falling apart. That always makes me sad. But the little boats? Those are actually used, and often.

I've been in Carrabelle for about six months (engine breakdown, and now an engine swap) ... on the river I'm anchored in, south side, there is ONE (o-n-e) larger (40+ feet) boat that is used regularly. There are dozens (two?) of little boats that go in and out almost every weekend.

Yes, on the other side of the river are a couple of sailboats (30') that are used regularly, plus one or two sports fish boats, and that's it. The Loopers come and go, but the local boats simple sit. Which is exactly what I've done while the engine issues are resolved.

That's not to say I want you not to boat -- I just want you to actually BOAT before you dump your wealth into a dream killer.

In My Opinion, of course.

 

[Jbear]

Bennett,

I agree with psneeld. If you like the lines, and it is something you think you want to do, do it! Having said that, spend some serious time on the boat before you offer anything. Crawl around, get in the engine compartment and other areas with a flashlight and just look for a few hours. Everything people are saying is very true, these things cost a lot of money to keep and especially fix up. After you look at it and think, yeah, I can do that, then get a professional. Make SURE to check the references and really call some of the people they surveyed a boat for. Ask for the last 5 people or so. My boat had what appeared to be an extremely thorough survey by a reputable company but they missed a lot of things. But, there are a lot of things to miss. Lot's of things... Part of the survey is for the surveyor or yard to start the engines. They won't go through them for you but should give a general overall impression on them. After that, make an offer if you want. Make it contingent on oil analysis, etc. But make it contingent on something. I would go low. A boat my wife and I were looking at for several weeks was at $39,000.00 The owners took $12,000!! And not from us! We wished we had moved on it when we had the chance. I talked to the yard quite a bit and the motor and genset didn't even put out any smoke at all when finally started after 3 years. Now that is in part because the yard was good and knew what they were doing. Things to look for on this type of boat- well everything but especially soft decks and leaks. These things leak everywhere- top and bottom. Get a fat friend, (JK- just some weight!) and walk the decks and see what will flex. Look at all the windows and physically press, hard, on the frames and under them. You will have to fix all of this one way or another. There are some folks that say they would take all of the wood coring out of everything and completely replace everything with new, high end woods and epoxies, etc. I don't know if I follow that logic or not. I think you need to fix things good enough to be safe, to yourself, crew and the area you boat- No Corners on that!! But, how much you actually put into the boat to make it what you want is up to you. When I got my boat and started telling my friends all that I was going to do they each put up their hand and said don't forget to use it! Good advice from fellow trawler owners. (well, one was a rag bagger but oh, well) Sorry for the long post but I would hate to see you miss out on an opportunity that was presented if it is something you REALLY want to do. Just listen to the advice of others and be cautious. There are a lot of boats out there. Learn as much as you can. If you don't have any boating background I agree with the other folks and would caution you on purchasing something as unknown as this. But, maybe you have a bunch of money and want a project- well then step right up because have we got a deal for you! Have fun and great luck with this!
~Jeff

 

[Peter B]

Wilst agreeing with most of the above post - and also that of psneeld, make sure if you haven't already to read all of this thread…
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s25/replacing-my-teak-deck-after-47-years-10928-8.html#post212737
'nuff said..?

 

[Jbear]

Pete,
Yeah, that is a great thread. I hope when the time comes to do my decks in the next couple of years to even come close to what he is doing. A great example of doing it right. AND how much work it really takes to get these boats going sometimes.
Jeff

 

[GFC]

Bennett,

I'm not going to comment on this particular boat but let me offer some suggestions I routinely give to friends who are considering buying a used boat.

1. The wrong boat, at the best price in the world, is still the wrong boat. It must suit your needs, it must fit within your ability to do the work, it must fit your budget and it must make your heart flutter a bit when you walk up to it.

I could go on and on with that list of "it must...", but you get the picture.

2. Do your due diligence. Like was mentioned above, crawl around the bilge with a flashlight looking for signs that the bilge had been under water. It's a bit more difficult to spot things that tell you to run away from a particular boat than it is to spot things that tell you to buy it.

3. Don't let your emotions overrun you common sense. You've already formed an emotional attachment to the boat, and that's good up to a point. That point is when the emotional attachment overrides your good sense, back away and try to be more objective. Take a HARD look at the boat, then have it surveyed.

4. You mentioned you wanted this boat for retirement. Don't spend all of your retirement money getting this boat ready. Restoring boats is like restoring collector cars. You NEVER get your money's worth out of the resto so it's better to let someone else do the resto and then buy it from them. There are hundreds of thousands of used boats on the market. Make sure you're not buying someone else's money pit. There's a reason why the yard is selling it cheap. It's likely they know how much it would cost THEM to get it ready to cruise and to them it doesn't pencil out.

Good luck.

 

[FF]

Overlooked most times is how the boat LOOKS!

Sure a roomaran may have huge interior volume , but your boat MUST make you happy , every time you walk up to her.

Not many boats are really beautiful, the best chance of finding one is from the board of a master , not a computer geek.

 

[River Cruiser]

If the vessel is in the water, have the yard start it up- if damage occurs, it's on them. Before committing, I'd have the vessel surveyed- mechanical and hull. This may save you tens of thousands in the long run.....

IMO this is the advice you should heed.

 

[THD]

FF-to me, a very good point. Being a bit old fashioned when it comes boat design (not to say I like old boats, ours is a 2009), I have to like and appreciate the lines on a boat before I can truly "like" everything else on the boat. My biggest beef with most of the "passagemaker" trawlers today is that most are really unattractive looking boats. I still love the feeling of walking down the dock in the morning and realizing "Damn, that is a really good looking boat!"

 

[janice142]

FF-to me, a very good point. Being a bit old fashioned when it comes boat design (not to say I like old boats, ours is a 2009), I have to like and appreciate the lines on a boat before I can truly "like" everything else on the boat. My biggest beef with most of the "passagemaker" trawlers today is that most are really unattractive looking boats. I still love the feeling of walking down the dock in the morning and realizing "Damn, that is a really good looking boat!"

I'm not so certain that you need to initially love your boat. Seaweed was not a "love at first sight" boat -- indeed her name came about because she rather grew on me.

The internal layout is important though. For me, galley up was a must. A friend cruises on his galley down boat and prefers it. Does your better half prefer an aft cabin layout or does she like the forward area best?

These are questions you and your spouse need to know BEFORE you you lay down cash.

The power plant is important but more than that is the ACCESS to all the components of your engine, generator, etc. The oil needs to be changed, belts replaced, pumps too, impellers, fuel filters, and more. If getting into the holy place is restricted you'll miss stuff. You won't see that oozing leak if you can't easily put eyeballs on the motor.

But love? You'll come to love the boat you buy, even if initially she wasn't the dream boat you'd imagined.