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Old 10-24-2011, 06:27 PM   #1
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Diesel Engine Comparison Question

Im looking at two similar boats.* Following are my engine choices.* Can you tell me which you recommend and a couple reasons why?* Thank you for any assistance you may provide! - Art
*

1976 Model: 3208 Caterpillar /*1000 hours<br clear="all" /><br clear="all" />1999 Series 400 Turbo John Deer / 750 hours
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Old 10-24-2011, 06:36 PM   #2
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RE: Diesel Engine Comparison Question

Nothing runs like a Deere! It's newer, has been adequately used and they have a great reputation. There are too few hours on the '76 one...it sat around a lot and no engine likes that. With either, get a good engine survey and oil analysis.
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Old 10-24-2011, 06:47 PM   #3
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RE: Diesel Engine Comparison Question

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Keith wrote:
Nothing runs like a Deere! It's newer, has been adequately used and they have a great reputation. There are too few hours on the '76 one...it sat around a lot and no engine likes that. With either, get a good engine survey and oil analysis.
*Thanks, Keith - W.
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Old 10-24-2011, 09:05 PM   #4
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RE: Diesel Engine Comparison Question

I'm a CAT fan, but I agree with Keith.*
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Old 10-24-2011, 09:12 PM   #5
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RE: Diesel Engine Comparison Question

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I'm a CAT fan, but I agree with Keith.*
Thanks, Delfin.* That's about the way I figured people would lean... I'm leaning that way too. - W. *
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Old 10-24-2011, 09:24 PM   #6
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Diesel Engine Comparison Question

Not many hours on an older boat's engine(s) does not automatically mean the boat has sat around too much without being used. It will depend on where the boat is and how it was used by its previous owners.

Our boat was 25 years old when we bought it and the engines had only 1200 hours on them. This could certainly be construed to mean the boat was not used much and had long periods of inactivity. But this was not true at all. The boat had five previous owners. All of them used the boat regularly. But the boat had spent its whole life in San Francisco Bay. In talking to boaters who have lived and had boats there, there aren't all that many places to go. Back and forth across the bay and up the rivers is about it. So you can use a boat a lot but not rack up very many hours, which was the case with our boat.

So before you write off an older boat you like but seems to have too few hours on the engine, it might be worth it to try to determine how the boat was used by its previous owners. If it was used a lot but for short trips, which was the case with our boat, having low hours on the engine(s) could be a wonderful thing. But if the boat truly did sit around for long periods of time between owners or uses, that could be a reason to have the engine(s) VERY thoroughly checked out.


-- Edited by Marin on Monday 24th of October 2011 09:26:29 PM
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Old 10-24-2011, 09:43 PM   #7
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RE: Diesel Engine Comparison Question

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Marin wrote:
Not many hours on an older boat's engine(s) does not automatically mean the boat has sat around too much without being used. It will depend on where the boat is and how it was used by its previous owners.

Our boat was 25 years old when we bought it and the engines had only 1200 hours on them. This could certainly be construed to mean the boat was not used much and had long periods of inactivity. But this was not true at all. The boat had five previous owners. All of them used the boat regularly. But the boat had spent its whole life in San Francisco Bay. In talking to boaters who have lived and had boats there, there aren't all that many places to go. Back and forth across the bay and up the rivers is about it. So you can use a boat a lot but not rack up very many hours, which was the case with our boat.

So before you write off an older boat you like but seems to have too few hours on the engine, it might be worth it to try to determine how the boat was used by its previous owners. If it was used a lot but for short trips, which was the case with our boat, having low hours on the engine(s) could be a wonderful thing. But if the boat truly did sit around for long periods of time between owners or uses, that could be a reason to have the engine(s) VERY thoroughly checked out.



-- Edited by Marin on Monday 24th of October 2011 09:26:29 PM
Thanks, Marin.* If I decide to purchase, I will of course get the engines fully checked by professional diesel mechanic.* If all things were equal regarding hours of use, maintenance records, and*general condition of the engines I'd like to learn if the 1999 Series 400 Turbo John Deer, or, the*1976 Model: 3208 Caterpillar would be the preferred choice... by those that have experience with both types of diesel, or at least have knowledge on both. - W.
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Old 10-24-2011, 10:18 PM   #8
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RE: Diesel Engine Comparison Question

In what ways are the 23 years apart vessels similar?
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Old 10-24-2011, 11:08 PM   #9
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Diesel Engine Comparison Question

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sunchaser wrote:
In what ways are the 23 years apart vessels similar?
Engines were replaced in one boat* i.e. the 1999*Deers.* Both vessels are same year, same builder, same model.


-- Edited by Art on Monday 24th of October 2011 11:09:29 PM
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Old 10-25-2011, 04:18 AM   #10
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RE: Diesel Engine Comparison Question

"Engines were replaced in one boat i.e. the 1999 Deers. "

Would be interesting to question the owner WHY the engines were replaced.
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:28 AM   #11
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RE: Diesel Engine Comparison Question

FF - Yes!*
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:07 PM   #12
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Diesel Engine Comparison Question

Have some experience with Deeres on our commercial boats....not sure the slogan matches actual performance of all their models...had to do a major rebuild of one after only a couple of years (couple thousand hrs)*and both engines in that boat have been plagued with oil and coolant leaks. I know that's not a fair comparison as ALL manufacturers sure have had their problems...so my advice is be careful of model and past performance when deciding between 2 different engines.


-- Edited by psneeld on Wednesday 26th of October 2011 05:09:16 PM
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:40 PM   #13
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RE: Diesel Engine Comparison Question

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psneeld wrote:
Have some experience with Deeres on our commercial boats....not sure the slogan matches actual performance of all their models...had to do a major rebuild of one after only a couple of years (couple thousand hrs)*and both engines in that boat have been plagued with oil and coolant leaks. I know that's not a fair comparison as ALL manufacturers sure have had their problems...so my advice is be careful of model and past performance when deciding between 2 different engines.

Thanks, Scott - I*yesterday learned the one with Deer is 1,300 +/- miles away (I thought it was just 6 to 700 miles previously).* Long trip on her bottom as a new to me boat; good-long hard worked (8 hr plus) sea trial needed beforehand, but the trip is undoable!* Not for mid winter in pacific going north, and a real knowing mate/other-captain should accompany me.* Also learned this morn of the one with Cats thats only a*couple hours away Cat with 1K hrs had a major at 2.5K hrs and the other engine has 3.5K hrs with no major ever.* Careful is as careful does! Cheers! Art *
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Old 10-30-2011, 04:52 AM   #14
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RE: Diesel Engine Comparison Question

'76 Vintage.
You'd be ready for a change too. 35 yrs old. and Probably run regularly with big hrs.

Those 3208's are not Cat's best engine.
From memory they were designed with another company (Ford) To keep a range of trucks running.
No Liners etc. Throwaway after a coupla low hr rebuilds.
They were OK Nat aspirated and lower HP. But once the Turbo's etc came in with different heads and manifolds.
, and horsepower went up. A lot more stress on a low stress block.
I wouldn't touch one. over a Deere. of any age thank you.

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Old 10-30-2011, 06:21 AM   #15
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RE: Diesel Engine Comparison Question

Quote:
macka17 wrote:
'76 Vintage.
You'd be ready for a change too. 35 yrs old. and Probably run regularly with big hrs.

Those 3208's are not Cat's best engine.
From memory they were designed with another company (Ford) To keep a range of trucks running.
No Liners etc. Throwaway after a coupla low hr rebuilds.
They were OK Nat aspirated and lower HP. But once the Turbo's etc came in with different heads and manifolds.
, and horsepower went up. A lot more stress on a low stress block.
I wouldn't touch one. over a Deere. of any age thank you.

macka17
Thanks, Macka17.* Interesting what you say re Cat*3208's.* I'm leaning well away from purchasing that boat due to the old Cats.* Going to see it soon with wife*simply because it is a near*duplicate boat to the one with Deers and only couple hours away by car whereas the other is*over 1,200 miles away.* If it interests us as much as I think it will then a plane flight may occur.*
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:31 AM   #16
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RE: Diesel Engine Comparison Question

Assuming the engine is not the highest HP rated*for the CID,*the color of paint is less important than the diligence towards maintenance.
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:19 AM   #17
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RE: Diesel Engine Comparison Question

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sunchaser wrote:
Assuming the engine is not the highest HP rated*for the CID,*the color of paint is less important than the diligence towards maintenance.
*Sunchaser - That is true!
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:33 AM   #18
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RE: Diesel Engine Comparison Question

Looks to me like the BOAT should be the choice here not the engines. Perhaps Rick and newbie macka17 could point you toward the possible weak links of the engines and w a good survey the engine choice could be obvious.*Both seem to be excellent engines but I think John Deer is a bit over rated and hyped. That would give the Deer the nod in resale value and indicate that the JD boat (all other things being equal) should be more expensive now. If it is'nt there will be a reason and once you get closer on this the boats will show you which way to go. If you have your choice of two dates, both gorgeous, both in identical beautiful red dresses it would seem like a difficult choice but once you ask the girls a few questions the choice may be very obvious. I assume the boats are Tollys.
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:44 AM   #19
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RE: Diesel Engine Comparison Question

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nomadwilly wrote:
Looks to me like the BOAT should be the choice here not the engines. Perhaps Rick and newbie macka17 could point you toward the possible weak links of the engines and w a good survey the engine choice could be obvious.*Both seem to be excellent engines but I think John Deer is a bit over rated and hyped. That would give the Deer the nod in resale value and indicate that the JD boat (all other things being equal) should be more expensive now. If it is'nt there will be a reason and once you get closer on this the boats will show you which way to go. If you have your choice of two dates, both gorgeous, both in identical beautiful red dresses it would seem like a difficult choice but once you ask the girls a few questions the choice may be very obvious. I assume the boats are Tollys.
Eric - Thanks for the post.* Girls in red dresses nearly always look nice!**What is behind their eyes*counts!* Tolly... me? You bet!! Ciao, Art
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Old 10-31-2011, 06:22 AM   #20
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RE: Diesel Engine Comparison Question

Did I miss the part about cost to buy and cost to get home comparison? If they are the same or close when you run the total than it is back to engine choice again.
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