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Old 01-07-2016, 10:02 AM   #21
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Should I just shrug it off as a gauge problem.....

Have all your previous temperature "measurements" -- prior to the Cummins guy shooting them -- come from eyeballing your gauges?

If so, what gauges? And what senders?

When I was changing to new digital temp gauges -- our original Faria gauges always gave very consistent but very incorrect readings -- I discovered part of the reason was because the senders and the gauges were incompatible. Our engines are apparently always delivered with VDO senders, our boat maker should have switched those out to Teleflex if they wanted them to work with Faria gauges... but they apparently forgot that minor detail.

That probably wouldn't account for a "temps used to read correctly, right but now they're not right" situation, though...

But I'm guessing gauges, and maybe senders, can fail...

-Chris
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Old 01-07-2016, 10:40 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
Have all your previous temperature "measurements" -- prior to the Cummins guy shooting them -- come from eyeballing your gauges?

If so, what gauges? And what senders?

When I was changing to new digital temp gauges -- our original Faria gauges always gave very consistent but very incorrect readings -- I discovered part of the reason was because the senders and the gauges were incompatible. Our engines are apparently always delivered with VDO senders, our boat maker should have switched those out to Teleflex if they wanted them to work with Faria gauges... but they apparently forgot that minor detail.

That probably wouldn't account for a "temps used to read correctly, right but now they're not right" situation, though...

But I'm guessing gauges, and maybe senders, can fail...

-Chris
Gauges are OEM. And the issue is consistency. If this was consistent, and I had shot the temps and was happy about it and the gauges read consistently, I would have no problem. But it is not. When I purchased the boat, there was no issue. Now it has steadily crept up. And sometimes it is perfectly fine....but then the temp will jump up close to 200.
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Old 01-07-2016, 01:59 PM   #23
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IAnyway, would this be a proper place to measure temperature for this issue??? I am still not feeling all warm and fuzzy about this. Basically, we accomplished nothing except we now know the temps coming out of the engine are 180. Should I just shrug it off as a gauge problem.....
Where he measured is important...however I like to take readings right on the temp sender to compare with what the gage says.
And when I find that those two readings no longer agree (within reason) I change the gage and sender. That has always worked for me.
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Old 01-07-2016, 04:30 PM   #24
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Where he measured is important...however I like to take readings right on the temp sender to compare with what the gage says.
And when I find that those two readings no longer agree (within reason) I change the gage and sender. That has always worked for me.
While I agree in theory, in reality, that is challenging. If you move one millimeter from the sender the temp changes 10...20...maybe even 100 degrees!!!! SO it is extremely difficult to get a consistent reading anywhere near the sender. I PMed Ski about this awhile back and he agreed with you and I tried. But I could not get a consistent reading. It appeared to agree with the gauge but it really depended on where I was shooting. One little mm shift in position and the temp would shoot up to 300+.....
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Old 01-07-2016, 06:47 PM   #25
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If you are getting near the exhaust port, you will get high readings. Some guns have a wide angle and those are hard to use. Or you may be too far away and gun senses the hottest thing in view, may need to get closer. On the B's, I shoot near the temp sender right above thermostat. If hard to get to, I shoot the metal section of the outlet tube going from tstat to HX. Usually those two points are with 5F of each other. You can't get a good reading on rubber hose.
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Old 01-07-2016, 07:32 PM   #26
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John, As you may recall, I chased a perceived engine heating problem on my Halvorsen single engine trawler for quite some time. (330B) It was running at 192 degrees (the guage on the panel reading) & I was convinced that was too hot. You name it, I changed everything you can change that has anything to do with the 330B cooling system. (ie: coolant, heat exchangers rodded, thermostat, sender, guage at the panel, etc.) I bought an IR gun to check the locations recommended by Tony Athens at Boat Diesel.com. (Best $25 I ever spent!) The long & short of my problem is this....that engine ran at 192 degrees all the time! It ran at that temperature with no problems right up and until I sold it!

Here's a photo from SeaBoard Marine (Tony Athen's outfit) that was linked to me. It also shows the location of the thermostat.

IR Gun Temperature Check - Seaboard Marine
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Old 01-08-2016, 12:45 PM   #27
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I shoot the metal section of the outlet tube going from tstat to HX. Usually those two points are with 5F of each other. You can't get a good reading on rubber hose.
That is where he was shooting and where I will shoot from now on. It was dead on the money 180. Now realize this was with the gauge reading about 185 instead of the near 195 temps I have been seeing. So I will just keep watching it. When I see a reading of 195 I will run down and take a shot of it. It is fairly easy to get to so it wouldn't be hard to get a shot while randomly underway.
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Old 01-08-2016, 01:31 PM   #28
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Intermittent overheat can be due to impeller pieces in FRONT of the pump, between the strainer and the pump.
It doesn't sound rational that they would be in that location, but is often the case.
When a blade lets go, the remaining blades will push the loose pieces into any available orifice, inlet or outlet.
Seaboard has a 165 degree thermostat if that fits your need better.
You can find interesting discussion of the topic on boatdiesel.com.
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Old 01-08-2016, 02:38 PM   #29
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Greetings,
The mention of differing temperatures (within mm of a particular location) whilst "shooting" with an IR gun reminds me I should get some stick on black dots.
During her ER checks, the Admiral, shoots and records temps at several locations. I've been meaning to buy some above mentioned black dots and apply them to strategic locations on the engines so as to compare readings from the same spots every time. Similar to...

600 BLACK 1/4" map stick-on map dots
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Old 01-08-2016, 03:24 PM   #30
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Greetings,
The mention of differing temperatures (within mm of a particular location) whilst "shooting" with an IR gun reminds me I should get some stick on black dots.
During her ER checks, the Admiral, shoots and records temps at several locations. I've been meaning to buy some above mentioned black dots and apply them to strategic locations on the engines so as to compare readings from the same spots every time. Similar to...

600 BLACK 1/4" map stick-on map dots
We call them "paper a s s h o l e s"....
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Old 01-08-2016, 04:44 PM   #31
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Stick on dots, different coatings, surfaces finishes, etc., all have different emissivities, and that changes how the IR gun reads. Try reading a hot stainless shiny surface pipe and you will know what I mean!! Emissivity is a part of the radiative heat transfer calcs and that is the realm the IR gun operates in. In general, painted, rusty, crusty, dirty surfaces read ok. Shiny, not so well.

That's the reason in power plants and other industrial places, motors and things you want cool are painted dark. Things you want to stay hot are wrapped in shiny al wrap. You won't see dark colored insulated steam pipes, always shiny.

Baker, I'll bet you have a flaky gauge/sender/circuit. A B motor comes with a 180 tstat and that means it starts opening around 180 and is full open around 190. About a 10F operating band. If you shot it at 180F at high cruise you should be in good shape. Very rare for cooling issues to "come and go". It's either fouled or it is not.

Next time out shoot and compare.
Paper assh0les should do the trick!!
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Old 01-08-2016, 06:18 PM   #32
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Stick on dots, different coatings, surfaces finishes, etc., all have different emissivities, and that changes how the IR gun reads. Try reading a hot stainless shiny surface pipe and you will know what I mean!! Emissivity is a part of the radiative heat transfer calcs and that is the realm the IR gun operates in. In general, painted, rusty, crusty, dirty surfaces read ok. Shiny, not so well.

That's the reason in power plants and other industrial places, motors and things you want cool are painted dark. Things you want to stay hot are wrapped in shiny al wrap. You won't see dark colored insulated steam pipes, always shiny.

Baker, I'll bet you have a flaky gauge/sender/circuit. A B motor comes with a 180 tstat and that means it starts opening around 180 and is full open around 190. About a 10F operating band. If you shot it at 180F at high cruise you should be in good shape. Very rare for cooling issues to "come and go". It's either fouled or it is not.

Next time out shoot and compare.
Paper assh0les should do the trick!!
Thanks ski. Strangely, we did wiggle the sender gizmo and it was loose. But we also wiggled it while underway and it did not even so much as twitch when we were jacking with it. We did do a WOT run for about 4 minutes. Never got above 190 on the pipe exiting the the block/Tstat. I will have to get more history before I feel all warm and fuzzy.
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