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Old 02-14-2017, 01:17 PM   #1
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Cummins 5.9 Engine installation angle

The Cummins 210 HP 5.9 in my 1986 Albin 34 has been smoking a little. I have had the boat for over a year, but run it very little due to projects (still very much ongoing). It is time to address the smoke, so I had the injectors rebuilt, and I changed all the filters and it still smokes. Now I am looking at the angle of installation, which I measured at 11 1/2 degrees. The dipstick is forward on the engine and shows full. Could I have an overfull crankcase when it shows full on the stick due to the angle of installation? I did recently take it on a 20 mile cruise and it performed just fine, but continued with the light smoking. The operating temperature is good and the oil pressure is good. I am thinking of removing some oil?
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Old 02-14-2017, 02:10 PM   #2
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Check with the manual to see what the min and max oil capacity is. When you fill it with oil you should put the min amount in and mark the stick at that point. Then continue to put the max in and mark that on the stick.

I have no idea if that is the cause of the smoke however.
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Old 02-14-2017, 02:14 PM   #3
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5.9 oil capacity is 15 quarts. Tony Athens recommends 13 quarts on engines with a down angle installation. The best way to do this is to do a full oil change making sure that the crankcase is fully drained.
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Old 02-14-2017, 02:15 PM   #4
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Is it smoke or steam? What color is the smoke? Does it smoke on start up and get more or less underway? Does it smoke on idle after the engine warms or only underway? How much oil are you using in 10 hours?

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Old 02-14-2017, 02:19 PM   #5
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Oil Pan Capacities for Cummins Marine Engines - Seaboard Marine
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Old 02-14-2017, 03:15 PM   #6
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I think a little more diagnostic time is in order. Are you seeing steam, perhaps caused by an exhaust system starting to fail? Is it un-burned fuel? It is lub oil being burned?
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Old 02-14-2017, 03:42 PM   #7
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11.5 deg is a little steep. Did not think shaft angle on a MS34 was anywhere near that steep, but could be. I think the published tilt limit for the b210 is 15deg, but going off memory there. More tilt, more conscious you need to be on oil level. Try 13qts.

Also, under what running conditions do you see the smoke? RPM, load, boat speed, etc. At light load the b210 can be a bit smelly. Get over about 1300 it ought to clean up.

But note that if it has not been under power recently, it can be full of smudge internally and a good hard run for 15min at 1800 under load will clean the smudge out. And in that process it will smoke and stink. But normal.
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Old 02-14-2017, 03:55 PM   #8
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If all goes well I will be on the boat tomorrow and will try removing a couple quarts of oil, but make sure I am not below the add mark. As I said eariler, I recently ran the boat 20 miles and the smoke continued during the trip. I will try to make that run again to see if the oil level change helps. The smoke is definitely smoke, and not steam. White smoke, but slightly tinted. The boat has been run very little, so I cannot address oil useage. Maybe the oil level reduction will make a difference. Thanks all.
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Old 02-14-2017, 06:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
11.5 deg is a little steep. Did not think shaft angle on a MS34 was anywhere near that steep, but could be. I think the published tilt limit for the b210 is 15deg, but going off memory there. More tilt, more conscious you need to be on oil level. Try 13qts.

Also, under what running conditions do you see the smoke? RPM, load, boat speed, etc. At light load the b210 can be a bit smelly. Get over about 1300 it ought to clean up.

But note that if it has not been under power recently, it can be full of smudge internally and a good hard run for 15min at 1800 under load will clean the smudge out. And in that process it will smoke and stink. But normal.
I checked my Cummins Marine Recreational High Output Propulsion Units B and C Series Installation Directions (what a mouthful that was) for those specs. They are 0-12 deg for straight shaft and 3-12 deg for v-drives (engines facing aft) so it looks like Bikeandboat's installation is within Cummins recommendations.

As has already been recommended, I would sure try 13 quarts and verify the dipstick markings next oil change.
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Old 02-14-2017, 06:36 PM   #10
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Thanks, Larry.

To bike and boat, at what rpm are you running while you get the smoke? Have you tried running it harder for a bit?
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Old 02-14-2017, 07:29 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
Thanks, Larry.

To bike and boat, at what rpm are you running while you get the smoke? Have you tried running it harder for a bit?
On my latest outing about 4 weeks ago I did run the engine at 1800 traveling upstream for well over 30 minutes. Also ran at 1600 and 1400 on the way back. As I have stated, the smoke is normally light, but consistent.
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Old 02-14-2017, 07:51 PM   #12
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Answer these questions:

1) Your coolant temp after you have been running for at least 1 hour--Cruise RPM above 1600 RPM, and at idle or very low RPM's..

2) Total hours since new?

3) You said you had the injectors rebuilt----Can you give me any accurate details and to what that required or what was done? Like who did it? Did they have your CPL? -----

4) When you engine is cold ( sitting for days)--How easy does it start?

5) I'd like to see the overall installation for a few angles and perspectives..

6) DO NOT just drain oil off.. If you want to do it right, then follow the instructions in the link about OIL PAN CAPACITIES..Unless you know EXACTLY what you have in the oil pan, with the engine off or static, you know nothing.. Old dip stick marks also mean nothing until you have done your homework/put in the time.. Use 13 QTS as your MAXIMUM. I doubt that is your issue though.





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Old 02-14-2017, 08:38 PM   #13
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Answer these questions:

1) Your coolant temp after you have been running for at least 1 hour--Cruise RPM above 1600 RPM, and at idle or very low RPM's..

2) Total hours since new?

3) You said you had the injectors rebuilt----Can you give me any accurate details and to what that required or what was done? Like who did it? Did they have your CPL? -----

4) When you engine is cold ( sitting for days)--How easy does it start?

5) I'd like to see the overall installation for a few angles and perspectives..

6) DO NOT just drain oil off.. If you want to do it right, then follow the instructions in the link about OIL PAN CAPACITIES..Unless you know EXACTLY what you have in the oil pan, with the engine off or static, you know nothing.. Old dip stick marks also mean nothing until you have done your homework/put in the time.. Use 13 QTS as your MAXIMUM. I doubt that is your issue though.





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I will try to answer.
1. The temp when running at 1800 is around 185 degrees. It does drop about 15 degrees when at idle.
2. The hour meter reads 775 hours. I have no idea how accurate that reading is, but I did notice the hour meter is acurate in that an hour of actual running does equal an hour on the meter.
3. A Cummins mechanic did remove the injectors and delivered them to his choice of rebuilder iwth the specs. I can only trust his work and I have no idea.
4. The engine always starts immediately, after a couple weeks, cold, warm day, after running, makes no difference. It starts immediately.
5. I do not have photographs that would necessarily show anythng. Would need to take some.
6. OK. I do know that not long after purchasing the boat I did change the oil. It does have an oil pump out which I used. I did install three gallons and then added so that the level was on the full mark of the stick. 15 quarts would be about right.
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Old 02-14-2017, 08:48 PM   #14
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So at 1800 at cruise there is smoke coming out of the tailpipe? Could it be steam? Does it stink and burn your eyes? Does it persist 50' behind the boat and dissipate? Or does it persist out to the horizon?
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Old 02-14-2017, 08:57 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
So at 1800 at cruise there is smoke coming out of the tailpipe? Could it be steam? Does it stink and burn your eyes? Does it persist 50' behind the boat and dissipate? Or does it persist out to the horizon?
Hey Ski, the Cummins mechanic that came to remove the injectors for rebuild said it was smoke. I just go with his knowledge. After the injectors were rebuilt he installed them. I have not had him back out to the boat, he is very hard to schedule, and expensive.
I just started thinking about the installation angle and oil, and wondered if this had something to do with the smoke. The engine does run better since the injectors were rebuilt.
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:39 PM   #16
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My bet is you do not have a problem. You are not using your boat very much. You are also seeing this problem during the winter. Was this happening in the summertime???
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Old 02-15-2017, 10:47 PM   #17
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Have you run the numbers on your propeller?
Being overpropped is the #1 cause of smoky exhaust.
You need to find a new mechanic, Cummins B motors seldom have problems with injector malfunctions, and he should know that.
From a mechanic's viewpoint, that is not a good start point towards tracking down your smoke problem.
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