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Old 08-21-2019, 11:03 PM   #1
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Copper fuel line to rubber fuel line ?

I'm about to install an electric fuel priming pump. Our fuel lines are copper but I'll use rubber fuel hose to splice in the pump.

What I'm wondering is if I need to put hose barbs on the copper line after cutting it or if I can simply slide the rubber hose onto the copper line and double-hose clamp it in place ?

Thanks.
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Old 08-21-2019, 11:54 PM   #2
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I would not trust just putting the hose on the copper without a fitting and a barb fitting. Not sure what ABYC says about it but I would not do it.
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Old 08-22-2019, 01:08 AM   #3
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If you actually cut the copper tubing you will need to flare the end of the tube. You can buy a tube flaring tool at any automotive store. I recommend using a bubble or double flare.
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Old 08-22-2019, 06:29 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
I would not trust just putting the hose on the copper without a fitting and a barb fitting. Not sure what ABYC says about it but I would not do it.
Thanks, that was my thought too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiltrider1 View Post
If you actually cut the copper tubing you will need to flare the end of the tube. You can buy a tube flaring tool at any automotive store. I recommend using a bubble or double flare.
I have the bending and flaring tools and will look up how to do a bubble or double flare. Thanks.



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Old 08-22-2019, 07:44 AM   #5
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Trawler traveler,


Agree with the others in that you need a fitting there. reverse (double flare) and AN fittings would be my choice.



ABYC has a bunch of specs on this but doesn't say you can use a barb.


Now if you don't have the tools and skills to make up hoses with AN fittings, there's a lot of good hose people that you can use. That's one job I farm out because one little mistake and you can have rubber bits in your fuel.



I don't like clamps on fuel hoses but ABYC permits them, however, must be double and have the properties of ~300 SS, min 1/2 in.
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Old 08-22-2019, 07:54 AM   #6
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Just sliding the tubing into a rubber fuel hose , with 2 clamps works just fine.


A fuel transfer or priming is usually under 10PSI , do no big deal.
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Old 08-22-2019, 08:01 AM   #7
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If the ID of the hose is a close fit with the copper it will hold very well. Slide the hose on at least 3x the diameter of the copper and clamp it.

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Old 08-22-2019, 08:33 AM   #8
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If the line is very low pressure or a suction line, as long as it's slid far enough onto the copper and double clamped, I'd be ok with it. If it's under any meaningful pressure, I'd want something more to retain the hose.
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Old 08-22-2019, 09:17 AM   #9
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Put a flare in it. That way the clamp has something to seal the hose to. Double clamping is fine as a get home solution but shouldn’t be a permanent fix.
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:45 AM   #10
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Putting a small flare in the pipe will keep the hose from sliding off.

However, too large a flare will cut into the hose. I put a really small flare on the end of the pipe and smooth the sharp edge with sandpaper. Double flare would be ideal but hard to do a small one.

I double clamp.
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Old 08-22-2019, 11:00 AM   #11
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I’m in the camp that would just clamp it on the copper. If you slide the hose on far enough to get two clamps on, it’s not going anywhere.
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Old 08-22-2019, 12:54 PM   #12
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Iím in the camp that would just clamp it on the copper. If you slide the hose on far enough to get two clamps on, itís not going anywhere.


This is what I have. The coper tubing is 2 to 3 inches in the hose and never moved

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Old 08-22-2019, 01:51 PM   #13
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Over time diesel will soften the rubber and it may expand. IF you use a rubber hose, make sure it is fuel proof and use 2 clamps. Make a point to inspect the hose and connection.

I agree with Chace, slide the hose down at least 3x the diameter.
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Old 08-22-2019, 03:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Just sliding the tubing into a rubber fuel hose , with 2 clamps works just fine.

Ditto




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Old 08-22-2019, 05:21 PM   #15
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I'd use brass compression fittings on the copper and convert to male JIC then use Female JIC push-lok swivels for all the soft fuel line connections.
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Old 08-22-2019, 06:03 PM   #16
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While I agree that clamping the hose on the copper works fine and has been done on a lot of boats.... I like compression swivel connectors ...makes repairs so much easier.
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Old 08-23-2019, 05:58 AM   #17
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."makes repairs so much easier."

Its true that the rubber over time will become one with the copper tubing.A PIA.

But when purchasing the rubber if 3ft instead of 1 ft is bought, a sharp knife slid on the copper will reduce any take apart tine to near Zero.

The fuel style hose clamps can be reused almost forever., and can be found at most NAPA or auto shops.
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Old 08-23-2019, 08:23 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Just sliding the tubing into a rubber fuel hose , with 2 clamps works just fine.


A fuel transfer or priming is usually under 10PSI , do no big deal.
I've done this many times, no problem.
I just slide the rubber a foot or so over the copper and put 3 clamps of it makes you sleep better.
I've also done this with 60psi water piping with good results
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Old 09-06-2019, 01:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
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I would not trust just putting the hose on the copper without a fitting and a barb fitting. Not sure what ABYC says about it but I would not do it.
Agreed. ABYC is clear, you cannot place a fuel supply hose over a smooth pipe (there is an exception for fill hoses), it must include serrations, barbs or a bead. Only one clamp is required for fuel hoses other than fill lines.

The Standards say...

33.11 CONNECTIONS - FUEL HOSE
33.11.1 Flexible hose not equipped with permanently attached end fittings, such as swaged sleeve and threaded insert, shall be attached with corrosion resistant metallic clamps.

NOTE: Some USCG Type A hose is not designed to be clamped.

33.11.2 The ID of a hose and the OD of a connecting spud or fitting must meet the specification in H-33 Table II.

33.11.3 Hose shall not be installed on helical threading or knurling that provides a path for fuel leakage.

33.11.4 Clamps depending solely on the spring tension of the metal shall not be used.

33.11.5 Clamps shall be installed to impinge directly on the hose and shall not overlap each other.

33.11.6 Clamps shall be beyond the flare or bead, or fully on serrations where provided, and at least 1/4 inch (6mm) from the end of the hose.

33.11.7 Hose used in the fuel tank fill system shall be secured to pipes (smooth pipes acceptable), spuds or other fittings at each connection, by at least two corrosion resistant metallic clamps with nominal band widths of at least 1/2 inch (12mm).

33.11.8 Hose used in the fuel tank vent system, or the fuel distribution and return line system, shall be secured to a fitting that is formed or machined to provide serrations, barbs or a bead with a minimum height of at least 0.015 inches (0.038 mm)

33.11.9 Hose connections used in the fuel tank vent system or the fuel distribution and return line system shall have at least one corrosion resistant metallic clamp with a minimum nominal band width as indicated in H-33 Table III.

33.11.9.1 All components of hose clamps shall have a resistance to corrosion equal to or greater than 300 series stainless steel.

33.11.9.2 Hose clamps shall be reusable.
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Old 09-06-2019, 01:51 PM   #20
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I'd use brass compression fittings on the copper and convert to male JIC then use Female JIC push-lok swivels for all the soft fuel line connections.
Just an FYI, PushLoks are designed to NOT be used with clamps, using a clamp cuts into the inside membrane of the hose, as the barbs are very sharp, because they are designed to be used with...no clamps.

PushLok is a Parker product, it is only supposed to be used with PushLok hose, the hose is special designed, somewhat like a Chinese handcuff, to grip the barb.

There is no Type A1 PushLok hose, most installations I encounter use common A1 hose with PushLoks, which technically are incompatible, and most have clamps, which again violates Parker's installation guidelines.

From Parker, "Note: Push-Lok hose is recommended for vacuum applications but not for cooling lines in air conditioners and heat pumps, or for hydraulic applications where extreme pulsations are encountered. Push-Lok is not recommended for any fuel." https://www.parker.com/static_conten.../4281%20B1.pdf

Parker does make a PushLok fuel hose, but it's not labeled A1, and must be used with HY fittings, which must be crimped.

Having said all that, I'll admit that the PushLok fittings are very convenient and make disassembly a snap. If you can find a similar flare fitting with a conventional barb, that would be better. I've never been able to pull any hose off of a PushLok fititng.
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