Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-08-2013, 08:48 AM   #1
Guru
 
swampu's Avatar


 
City: Biloxi, MS
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cajun Rose
Vessel Model: Biloxi Lugger
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,144
converting 12v starters to 24vdc

Good morning, I am currently wiring my boat. I would like to run everything 24v including the starters. Does anyone have any experience in 6-71 DD with starters. Do I need to buy new starters or can the old one be rewired or reworked? I will have a step down transformer for any 12v requirements on the helm. Is this a good idea having only one voltage? Still kinda sorting things out but I like the simple approach. Thanks Paul
__________________
Advertisement

swampu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 09:40 AM   #2
TF Site Team
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,955
You could have a 24V boat, yes as we know thats doable.

The question is why? What are you gaining except wire size reduction?

While 24V works, 12V has become the defacto standard. Lots of 12V equipment is available off the shelf, not so much for 24V.

Dont get me wrong, I like the 1/2 the current concept of 24V but wouldnt use it because of its lack of popularity making replacement "stuff" harder to source.
__________________

__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.mvlisasway.com
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 03:17 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
IslandEagle's Avatar
 
City: Toronto & Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Island Eagle
Vessel Model: DeFever
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by swampu View Post
Good morning, I am currently wiring my boat. I would like to run everything 24v including the starters. Does anyone have any experience in 6-71 DD with starters. Do I need to buy new starters or can the old one be rewired or reworked? I will have a step down transformer for any 12v requirements on the helm. Is this a good idea having only one voltage? Still kinda sorting things out but I like the simple approach. Thanks Paul
OK, this is a subject I have quite a bit of experience with. Island Eagle was a 32 volt boat when I bought her, I converted to 12 and 24. I used 24 volts almost everywhere, the only 12 volt battery on board is the genset starting battery.

First, your initial question, where to get a 24 volt 6-71 starter. No problem. Go to any heavy-duty auto electric shop with one of your starters and they's sell you a brand new rebuilt 24 volt starter for a few hundred bucks. That's probably one of the most common starters around. They'll probably even pay you for your cores.

So, should you run 12 or 24?

First, you can run a mixed 12 & 24 system from one house bank. For my normal 12 volt ships supply, I used a Vanner Voltmaster. It's been flawless. I highly recommend it. This allows you to use a single 24 volt house bank for both 12 and 24 volt loads.

Do you need 24 volts for starting a 6-71? Nope. 12 volts is fine, run two parallel Optima batteries.

24 volts is more or less critical if you want to run a big inverter, which I wanted to do. However... I'm guessing that you will want to run your AC all the time, which means running the genset all the time, which means not as much need for the big inverter.

You will also need 24 volts if you want a big windlass. On the other hand, you can use hydraulic.

What about house lights, nav lights, etc., etc., etc.? Well, I went with 24 volts and now I regret it. There are now tons and tons of inexpensive LED and flourescent lights, but they are all 12 volt. 24 volt is a total pain in the butt to source.

If I were doing it over again, I would use 24 volts just for the windlass and the inverter, and 12 for absolutely everything else. I'd even think long and hard about a hydraulic windlass.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle
IslandEagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 04:08 PM   #4
Guru
 
swampu's Avatar


 
City: Biloxi, MS
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cajun Rose
Vessel Model: Biloxi Lugger
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,144
Scott, That is great info. I have a 24v windless and that was what was swinging me towards the 24v setup. I didn't think about the interior lights hard to get. I will run a mix bag of low voltage lights and 110v lights. Even some of the low voltage lights can have a "transformer" plug that drops the voltage down to 12v from the 110. Its hot here, real hot most of time. I'm about to spend my Sunday morning researching these lights other 12v vs. 24v items to see if its worth the switch. All I have right now are the 2 starters. Everything else is gone.
swampu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 04:18 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
IslandEagle's Avatar
 
City: Toronto & Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Island Eagle
Vessel Model: DeFever
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by swampu View Post
Scott, That is great info. I have a 24v windless and that was what was swinging me towards the 24v setup. I didn't think about the interior lights hard to get. I will run a mix bag of low voltage lights and 110v lights. Even some of the low voltage lights can have a "transformer" plug that drops the voltage down to 12v from the 110. Its hot here, real hot most of time. I'm about to spend my Sunday morning researching these lights other 12v vs. 24v items to see if its worth the switch. All I have right now are the 2 starters. Everything else is gone.
OK, if you have a 24 volt windlass that clinches it. I'd recommend this:

24 volt house bank for inverter and windlass, with a Vanner for all 12 volt loads. A large 24 volt alternator on one of the engines.

12 volt start banks for each engine, with el-cheapo internally regulated alternators. Put a parallelling switch in so that if one bank is dead you can use the other in a pinch.

The only upgrade if you want to do some serious cruising is to put a second 24 volt alternator on the other engine, but since you will run the genset most of the time that will also charge the house bank.

My final two cents: with what you save on the second alternator, get a really really good sound shield for the genset.

Scott
IslandEagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 05:32 PM   #6
Guru
 
BobH's Avatar
 
City: Montgomery, TX
Country: USA
Vessel Model: None, but looking
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 778
Need a 24v bilge pump? We bought a spare bilge pump when we went cruising and didn't realize till we sold the boat and tried to sell it that it was 24v. If anybody is interested I'll crawl up in the attic and get the make and model.

Bob
BobH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 08:01 PM   #7
Veteran Member
 
maxhopper502's Avatar
 
City: Port Lincoln
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Nenad
Vessel Model: Frahnof
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32
Hi Paul,
I have changed all my lights inside and out to 24 volts and am finding a lot of the LEDs these days can run on 9-28 volts, don't ask me how.
When I first started looking it was a bugger but now it doesn't seem to be a problem.
I have kept a couple of 240volt lights for emergency but never use them.
Cheers, Adam
maxhopper502 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 06:20 AM   #8
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,525
The concept of 24 for big loads , inverter, windlass is great , the Vanner (or other) 12v from 24 is very common on busses . perhaps a local scrap yard will have them used.

The question of battery charging remains , mostly will depend on the balance of time , dockside , underway , anchored silent , and the duration of silent , unpowered time you prefer.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 11:23 AM   #9
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
Since you have a 24 volt mindless I would have a separate 24 bank in the bow with is own charger and 12volt for everything else. What even you decide make sure the wirer is sized for 12volt so if you decide to change later the wire is big enough for 12 volt.
Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 11:31 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
IslandEagle's Avatar
 
City: Toronto & Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Island Eagle
Vessel Model: DeFever
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Fill View Post
Since you have a 24 volt windlass I would have a separate 24 bank in the bow with is own charger and 12volt for everything else. What even you decide make sure the wirer is sized for 12volt so if you decide to change later the wire is big enough for 12 volt.
The may be economical if you have a very long run from the ER to the windlass. If you do decide to do this, you could use a 24 volt charger which is powered by 12 volts, here is a supplier: Products: DC Battery Charger - Analytic Systems

However, if you need a 24 volt bank for an inverter, I would just run cable to the windlass.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle
IslandEagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 06:08 AM   #11
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,525
"However, if you need a 24 volt bank for an inverter, I would just run cable to the windlass."

Then there is always the 120V windlass that would only require modest wire , with a good sized sine wave inverter.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 07:53 AM   #12
Guru
 
swampu's Avatar


 
City: Biloxi, MS
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cajun Rose
Vessel Model: Biloxi Lugger
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,144
FF, I already have the windlass and it's 24volts.
swampu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 08:33 AM   #13
Guru
 
BobH's Avatar
 
City: Montgomery, TX
Country: USA
Vessel Model: None, but looking
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 778
>>>I have changed all my lights inside and out to 24 volts and am finding a lot of the LEDs these days can run on 9-28 volts, don't ask me how.<<<

All LED lights have some electronics in them to control voltage and current. That's what usually fails, not the LED itself.

Bob
BobH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 10:48 AM   #14
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
Quote:
Originally Posted by swampu View Post
FF, I already have the windlass and it's 24volts.
The Eagle has a separate battery bank in the chain locker for the windless and the forward toilet with a small charger as its to far to run a wire from the engine room about 50 ft. Also a windless does not use that many amps so a big battery bank is not needed. Most windless use 85 amps max and run for what a couple of minutes so the actual amps used are under 20. I have 2 regular car/boat deep cycle, but one would probable work as we do not anchor and/or use the front head. Anyway, there is nothing else on the boat that needs/required 24 volts. Again make sure you size the wirer for 12 volts. NOT 24 volts.

I rewire most of the 12 volts an 120 volt on the Eagle and has a marine electrician check my work, which has pass his inspection and several insurance audit/reviews and meets ABYC recommendations.
__________________

Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012