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Old 07-29-2018, 11:47 PM   #1
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Convert to 8V Serp Belt

Our 1999 Krogen 39 has a Deere 4045 TFM diesel powerplant. Our new large housebank (900Ah) prefers to be charged at ~0.4C. So I need a 250-300A large frame alternator for it. That means converting the existing twin 1/2" V-Belt setup to an 8V serpentine belt setup.

Anybody know a firm that sells Deere twin V-Belt to serp belt conversion kits? Thanks.
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Old 07-30-2018, 05:41 AM   #2
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My 4045 wind engine is equipped with a serpentine belt, and I think 8 ribs, but not 100% certain. A good Deere dealer should be able to supply the drive pulley and alternator mounting bracket for a larger alternator. You will also probably want to add a tensioning idler. I would give Hatton Marine a call.
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Old 07-30-2018, 07:13 AM   #3
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I also have a 4045 that came with a serpentine belt. Think it would be quite difficult to replace the alternator with a large frame high capacity one as the length and diameter of the alternator could be problematic. If you plan to charge a large house bank ( mine is 900 ah) you will likely want an external 3 stage regulator. If the bank gets down to 70%, you could be charging in bulk stage for an hour or more. This requires a large frame alternator to handle the continuous load and heat. The compact frame high output alternators aren't designed for continuous output above about 70%.

My solution was to mount a second alternator with it's own serpentine belt. Below are some pics of the 2nd pulley & adapter, alternator mounting and external regulator. Pics are during my refit, so the wiring wasn't complete. I like the idea of a second dedicated alternator for the house bank while leaving the original alternator and wiring intact.

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3 stage Sterling regulator is mounted on the wall in the upper right corner.

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Ted
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Old 07-30-2018, 12:57 PM   #4
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Nicely done.
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Old 07-30-2018, 01:09 PM   #5
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Ted, that is a very nice system. Is that all custom made?
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Old 07-30-2018, 01:11 PM   #6
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Looks very nice.
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Old 07-30-2018, 01:48 PM   #7
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Ted, that is a very nice system. Is that all custom made?
Yes.

I have a similar setup on my charter boat to power an air conditioner through an inverter. So the design was basically done. The pulley I bought from John Deere. The adapter plate was fabricated by a local machine shop. Since we had to make front motor mounts, I over built them so that an alternator cradle could easily be adapted to them. The rest of the parts were pretty simple and straightforward to make.

Between the alternator, 3 stage regulator, pulley, adapter plate fabrication, and some Sean time, I probably have 1.5 to $2K invested. Tied to my inverter, I have essentially a 3 KW generator run by the generator. With that and a 900 AH battery bank, I've probably eliminated 75% of my generator time.

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Old 07-30-2018, 08:49 PM   #8
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Ted, really interesting second alternator mounting solution. Nice set of pictures too, thanks. From what I'm seeing, the alternator is mounted on the engine mount, but the belt tensioner is mounted to the engine. Has that caused any issues? It's looking like the serp belt issue is the easier one--mounting a large alternator like that on my relatively small engine will be much harder than I imagined. But forge ahead.

I like the price for that Leece 220A alternator too. I was/am looking at Mark Grasser & Balmar large frame alternators, but they're a pretty big jump in cost.

My Deere is a 1998, back then they did twin V-Belts rather than serp belts. One Deere dealer told me the crankshaft nose shape was changed when serp belts were adopted, so it's not just a pulley change. I do need to confirm if that's true. If it means a crankshaft change to get a serp belt setup, that won't work. Then I'll look into just attaching a second twin v-belt pulley.

The other front in the conversion battle is mounting a large frame alternator as you said. I was thinking I'd adapt my 4045 over to a J180 mount, but that might not be feasible. The externally-regulated (Balmar ARS-5) 12V 115A small frame Balmar on it now only has a 1" foot. And I do like the second alternator idea.

From what I'm understanding of your installation, I'd need to redesign my front left main engine mount to take the alternator cradle, then design up the cradle itself. Do you have a picture showing more detail of the engine mount? Damn, it's easy to get in over my head....
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I also have a 4045 that came with a serpentine belt......
…..I like the idea of a second dedicated alternator for the house bank while leaving the original alternator and wiring intact.
…..3 stage Sterling regulator is mounted on the wall in the upper right corner. Ted
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:00 PM   #9
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TT, humourous that my main engine is your wing engine . I'm in the process of just what you mention, but I'm not sure I can get to a serp belt with how old my engine is. Can you recommend a Deere dealer that is more familiar with Deere marine engines? The ones in my area (farm country north of Seattle) are only familiar with agricultural Deere engines. Hatton Marine is an excellent recommendation, I'll give them a call thanks.

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My 4045 wind engine is equipped with a serpentine belt, and I think 8 ribs, but not 100% certain. A good Deere dealer should be able to supply the drive pulley and alternator mounting bracket for a larger alternator. You will also probably want to add a tensioning idler. I would give Hatton Marine a call.
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Old 07-31-2018, 06:34 AM   #10
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Have you looked at the online Deere parts book? It will show all the factory options for alternator mounting. Maybe you can find one that suits your needs. I too would be trying for a j180 mount. Also keep in mind that many pulleys bolt to the pulley thatís on the crank shaft. It looks like thatís how Oc Divers is set up. That might work even if the crank end taper has changed.
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Old 07-31-2018, 08:08 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil View Post
Ted, really interesting second alternator mounting solution. Nice set of pictures too, thanks. From what I'm seeing, the alternator is mounted on the engine mount, but the belt tensioner is mounted to the engine. Has that caused any issues? It's looking like the serp belt issue is the easier one--mounting a large alternator like that on my relatively small engine will be much harder than I imagined. But forge ahead.

I like the price for that Leece 220A alternator too. I was/am looking at Mark Grasser & Balmar large frame alternators, but they're a pretty big jump in cost.

My Deere is a 1998, back then they did twin V-Belts rather than serp belts. One Deere dealer told me the crankshaft nose shape was changed when serp belts were adopted, so it's not just a pulley change. I do need to confirm if that's true. If it means a crankshaft change to get a serp belt setup, that won't work. Then I'll look into just attaching a second twin v-belt pulley.

The other front in the conversion battle is mounting a large frame alternator as you said. I was thinking I'd adapt my 4045 over to a J180 mount, but that might not be feasible. The externally-regulated (Balmar ARS-5) 12V 115A small frame Balmar on it now only has a 1" foot. And I do like the second alternator idea.

From what I'm understanding of your installation, I'd need to redesign my front left main engine mount to take the alternator cradle, then design up the cradle itself. Do you have a picture showing more detail of the engine mount? Damn, it's easy to get in over my head....
Here are some pictures from the repower that show the motor mount better. They're made of stainless steel and way over built (No kill like over kill ).

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No issues with the belt tensioner as the alternator is bolted to the engine.

Deere makes multi groove pulleys designed to bolt to the crank shaft pulley. I just wanted a serpentine belt, so I went the custom route (OCD).

Ted
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Old 07-31-2018, 08:27 AM   #12
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Here is another pic showing the alternator attached to the motor mount.

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There is a plate welded to the motor mount that has the alternator bracket bolted to it. These plates are so thick that there is absolutely no flexing at all. The alternator is one with the motor!

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Old 07-31-2018, 09:25 AM   #13
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I am a little puzzled by your 0.4C requirement. That is too high for AGM or FLA batteries and will cause battery overheating and premature failure. Only Li batteries should be charged that fast.


If you drop to the recommended .25C max then two 1/2" belts should be ok at .25*900= 225 amps max. At that much load on two belts, just keep an eye on belt wear and tension. That approach is a lot cheaper than serpentine belts and a new alternator mount.


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Old 07-31-2018, 11:35 AM   #14
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Excerpt from the Firefly L15+ manual:

"For repetitive deep cycling, chargers should have an output current of at least 0.4C (40 Amps for a 100 Ah battery). If the output current is less than this value, the cycle life of the battery may be negatively affected."

That caught my attention too.

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I am a little puzzled by your 0.4C requirement. That is too high for AGM or FLA batteries and will cause battery overheating and premature failure. Only Li batteries should be charged that fast.
If you drop to the recommended .25C max then two 1/2" belts should be ok at .25*900= 225 amps max. At that much load on two belts, just keep an eye on belt wear and tension. That approach is a lot cheaper than serpentine belts and a new alternator mount.


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Old 07-31-2018, 04:19 PM   #15
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Yeh, I've looked at the Deere parts book for repair parts, I'll have a go in the accessories section too. Thanks.

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Have you looked at the online Deere parts book? It will show all the factory options for alternator mounting. Maybe you can find one that suits your needs. I too would be trying for a j180 mount. Also keep in mind that many pulleys bolt to the pulley thatís on the crank shaft. It looks like thatís how Oc Divers is set up. That might work even if the crank end taper has changed.
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Old 07-31-2018, 06:15 PM   #16
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Ah, I see. The big thick alternator plate is *welded* to the motor mount--I was wondering if the plate was only bolted to the motor mount by the one big motor mount bolt. How would you change the motor mount if the first one wore out, started sagging? I had to change out the mounts when I bought our boat. Nice pictures too.
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Here is another pic showing the alternator attached to the motor mount.

Attachment 79205

There is a plate welded to the motor mount that has the alternator bracket bolted to it. These plates are so thick that there is absolutely no flexing at all. The alternator is one with the motor!

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Old 07-31-2018, 06:20 PM   #17
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I think it's welded to the engine bracket, and the mount attaches to that.
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Old 07-31-2018, 07:03 PM   #18
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Sorry if I caused some confusion. The cushion part is often referred to as the isolation mount. The bolted on frame between the isolation mount and the engine is often referred to as the motor mount.

In the pictures you can see the isolation mount bolted to the engine bed and bolted to the motor mount. The isolation mounts are easy to adjust and easy to change if necessary as they are held in place with only 2 bolts and 1 nut.

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Old 07-31-2018, 09:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
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My Deere is a 1998, back then they did twin V-Belts rather than serp belts. One Deere dealer told me the crankshaft nose shape was changed when serp belts were adopted, so it's not just a pulley change. I do need to confirm if that's true. If it means a crankshaft change to get a serp belt setup, that won't work. Then I'll look into just attaching a second twin v-belt pulley.
Be aware that an AX-belt, which is raw-edge and notched, has a higher basic hp rating (before correction factors) than a raw-edge A-belt (which is not notched), by around 20-30% typically. And waaay higher power rating than a 4L (fractional hp) belt (also 1/2" wide), which is usually wrapped (not raw-edge) and not intended for high-speed, high-power applications.
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:42 AM   #20
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Ted & TT; Ok finally got it methinks. My mechanical experience is from the vintage car world where an engine/motor mount is what I understand now to be a (marine) isolation mount. So the thick alternator plate is welded to the engine mounting bracket. Thus that makes the alternator part of the engine, now I see.

Ted, you have the thick plate welded to the engine bracket, and a smaller intermediate alternator mount plate bolted to the thick plate--is that slotted to allow fore-and-aft adjustment, as well as obviously belt tension adjustment?

I'm still looking into the J180 mount possibility, but Ted's setup is sounding more doable now. Remove my left front *engine bracket*, weld a thick (stainless?) plate to it allowing room for the isolation mount bolt, then bolt a (slotted?) intermediate smaller stainless alternator plate--with alternator mount lug (allowing belt tension adjustment) welded to it--to the thick plate. Damn, this is good stuff....
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