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Old 06-30-2016, 03:19 PM   #41
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Never dealt with the 3208na if I had a cats that's the ones I'd want. I've rebuilt 2ea 6bt and 1ea 4bt. Sounds like a rod knock to me.
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Old 06-30-2016, 03:22 PM   #42
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Well the metal in the filter tells the story it is not an injector. That much metal in the filter is almost certainly a serious internal problem. Where it mine I would be removing the pan and having a look.
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Old 06-30-2016, 11:02 PM   #43
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here are a couple pics. Doesn't seem to stick to the magnet, but they're so small I'm having a hard time keeping track of them when I try.
It may be bearing metal and not ferromagnetic. Testing the oil samples will prove that one way or the other.
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Old 07-01-2016, 06:47 AM   #44
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if you had a failed bearing I would expect to see more white metal particles in the filter, having said that there shouldn't be any in the filter so something is wrong.

I can't hear a knock on the video, as previously explained, however if you can hear one then continuing to run the engine (with a knock) brings a serious risk of possibly major damage.

As you have just bought the boat you don't know how long it is since the oil filter was changed....all the failed bearing material might be in a previous one so the lack of material in the filter now doesn't mean there isn't much wrong.

Similarly an oil sample analysis may not tell you that much, the oil might have been changed the day before you bought the boat ???

I am afraid you need specialist help at the boat not this internet guessing game before you end up with a wrecked engine !!
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Old 07-02-2016, 12:52 PM   #45
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Thanks everyone, you all have been a great help! At this point I'm going to look at getting a CAT mechanic over here from Juneau. I'll let you know what the final verdict ends up being.
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Old 07-02-2016, 01:20 PM   #46
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Did you ever check the blowby for "puffing" as suggested way back??
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Old 07-03-2016, 12:08 PM   #47
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Did you ever check the blowby for "puffing" as suggested way back??
When replacing the throttle shaft seal, I removed the intake manifold and now I can't get it back on- the bolt holes won't line up (it's not even on backwards). I put a little bit of effort into it but didn't try very hard since I'll just have to pull it right back off. The ports that the push rods come up through all seem to be smoking equally though. Is that the same, or should I get the manifold back on and check it?
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Old 07-03-2016, 12:21 PM   #48
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Bolt holes should line up, unless cylinder heads are not in the same spots!!! One thing that is tricky is one bolt on the right head next to inj pump has to be backed off, but not removed as it hits the inj pump. Manifold is slotted so this is not a big deal. Mani takes a bit of wiggling to get it right, and get all bolts in loose before snugging any up.

And you want to put the intake on before putting the injector hard pipes on, at least I think they are in the way? So you did shaft seal, then put inj lines on, then cranked engine with intake off and rocker covers off? Nothing wrong with having intake ports open, but dang it if anything gets in there you have a problem.

Any chance something dropped into head intake ports while all this is opened up? That will make for a heck of a noise!!
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Old 07-03-2016, 01:43 PM   #49
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My advice as a marine engineer is to stop touching this engine and ask for a diesel specialist to come. You can do severe harm without knowledge. For me the sound points to a piston or piston-rod.... Every time you start this engine you possible worsen the situation..
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Old 07-05-2016, 08:40 PM   #50
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My advice as a marine engineer is to stop touching this engine and ask for a diesel specialist to come. You can do severe harm without knowledge. For me the sound points to a piston or piston-rod.... Every time you start this engine you possible worsen the situation..

I still can't get a local mechanic to look at it since I'm a pleasure vessel and not a fishing vessel, which I understand but it's very frustrating. The CAT shop in Juneau thinks the engine needs an overhaul which would probably cost $35000, based on the youtube video and oil filter pic I emailed them. But they said the good news is that there's a long block available in Germany...

Since I don't have a spare $35000 and these engines supposedly only have 1700 hours since being rebuilt, my next plan of action is to send in an oil sample and start tearing everything apart myself. The biggest thing I am lacking, which is definitely a very big thing, is the ability to diagnose the problem in the first place to know what to fix. But I guess a little On the Job Training will do me some good. What's the worst that happens, I can't use the boat that I'm paying for and, well, not able to use now anyway? Then I'll change oil and filters every few hours for a couple times and hope to get enough metal out that it won't do more damage, but at least I can use the boat I just bought.
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Old 07-05-2016, 08:43 PM   #51
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I'd say wait and figure out for sure what is going on. And you should be able to find a replacement or rebuild for a helluva lot cheaper than $35k I would think....
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Old 07-05-2016, 09:05 PM   #52
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Try these people.
When I talked to them a couple of years ago they lots of parts.
A rebuilt engine was approx. $14,000

Steveston Marine and Hardware
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Old 07-05-2016, 09:07 PM   #53
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I still can't get a local mechanic to look at it since I'm a pleasure vessel and not a fishing vessel, which I understand but it's very frustrating. The CAT shop in Juneau thinks the engine needs an overhaul which would probably cost $35000, based on the youtube video and oil filter pic I emailed them. But they said the good news is that there's a long block available in Germany...

Since I don't have a spare $35000 and these engines supposedly only have 1700 hours since being rebuilt, my next plan of action is to send in an oil sample and start tearing everything apart myself. The biggest thing I am lacking, which is definitely a very big thing, is the ability to diagnose the problem in the first place to know what to fix. But I guess a little On the Job Training will do me some good. What's the worst that happens, I can't use the boat that I'm paying for and, well, not able to use now anyway? Then I'll change oil and filters every few hours for a couple times and hope to get enough metal out that it won't do more damage, but at least I can use the boat I just bought.
Knowing what is wrong is only part of the big picture. You need to havea proper failure analysis done so you know why it failed at such a low hr and how to make sure it doesn't happen again.
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Old 07-05-2016, 09:15 PM   #54
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You have probably visited these thoughts.

You said earlier those engines were rebuilt in 2004.

Then...

When you sea trialed the boat in May, you said the owner and surveyor commented it was a good thing there was no smoke. Right after the cheque was cashed you had smoke.

Coincidence?
Did you have the engine surveyed?
Oil analysis?
Who found the boat and/or engine surveyor?

Probably a close boating community there; you think there is something you don't know?
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Old 07-05-2016, 09:22 PM   #55
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Your frustration is understandable but hang in there, better days ahead.
Your engine is extremely common in non-marine applications. We ran lots of them on dry land in trucks and loaders and scrapers and such. CAT shops are notoriously expensive though also notoriously well qualified. We avoid them when we can and we have been able to find some real talented people that work on these things outside of CAT shops. Some of them are retired CAT folks and have all or most of the tricky little gadgets that you might need to work on them like the captive timing tool among others. At one point there was just a bunch of these guys that came out of the oilfields in Alaska and some of them even made their way down here and have been helpful.

Try going inland a ways and asking small construction companies who they are using for independent mobile mechanics. You may run into some options like a moonlighter that can at least give you some good advice and point you in the right direction. We would take the heads off and take them to a good machine shop and sometimes we could find a short block take out and hang the old auxiliaries on the new block. Once in awhile we would rework one hole but if we could find a short block for a few grand, usually went that way. Could be as simple as a rebuild kit and/or a crank and you can get the kit aftermarket and find or machine the crank.

Good luck with this. The diagnosis is the key and if you haven't lived around these things, you should really find some help with that to keep you from going down a rat hole that is unnecessary. Missing a torque spec or some other little thing could make a small project into a big expensive one. Take breath!
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Old 07-06-2016, 05:41 AM   #56
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Look where the commercial folks look for quality rebuilds.

Boats and Harbors , or Rock & Dirt for repair /rebuild info.

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Rock & Dirt: Construction Equipment - Find New & Used Construction ...

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Rock & Dirt is your destination for new and used construction equipment and heavy machinery. Buy, sell, or auction heavy equipment here.
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Old 07-06-2016, 08:13 AM   #57
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Rob- At this point I am a bit confused as to what exactly has been done to the engine. I understand you bought it running ok, then pulled the intake to change governor shaft seal, then intake would not go on, and then you ran it with no intake and also you can not check blowby because the rocker covers are off? And somewhere in this process you got a "tick".

To help us out in putting all the pieces together, and to keep you busy while waiting on a mechanic, take some time and develop a complete timeline of exactly what was done to the engine, what symptoms showed and when, and the engine running details such as rpm and noise in between steps of work. Be concise, but leave out no details. Piecing it together from thread posts leaves gaps.
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Old 07-06-2016, 02:02 PM   #58
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The Cat dealer in Kansas City would roll in new bearings at 90,000 miles in 3208 truck engines because they would start flaking bearing material at 100,000 miles according to oil samples. With the metal you found in the filter media I would not run the engine at all until it's been repaired, any running could drastically increase the cost of repair.
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Old 07-07-2016, 12:15 AM   #59
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"To help us out in putting all the pieces together, and to keep you busy while waiting on a mechanic, take some time and develop a complete timeline of exactly what was done to the engine, what symptoms showed and when, and the engine running details such as rpm and noise in between steps of work. Be concise, but leave out no details. Piecing it together from thread posts leaves gaps."

Here you go-

3208 Timeline

May 5- The boat became mine a couple days ago so I decide to change the oil and all filters, along with all the fuel filters and engine zincs. My goal was to change everything (belts, water impellers, coolant, tranny fluid, whatever else I could get my hands on but no main bearings or rods!). At this point there was 1605 hours on starboard engine.

Mid May, a CAT mechanic that was in town came and took a look at the motors because I was a little concerned about a fuel leak from the throttle shaft seal on both engines. He confirmed what several others have told me- itís something that should be fixed sooner than later but nothing catastrophic will happen, just wasting fuel from the leak

Over the first 6 weeks or so after we bought it, we put about 110 hours on the engines. Going long distances, short distances, trolling, sightseeing, fast slow, etc...No knocks, no unusual noises, but I do have to prime the fuel and purge the air from the bad seals. Otherwise, everything seemed good. I pay very close attention to the gauges I have (oil pressure, fuel, and water temp) every time we go out and they never go out of range. I always check the oil and coolant levels before going out. Every once in a while I have to add some oil but not huge amounts. The oil pressure is always good, according to the gauges, so I was hoping to make it a winter project.

June 21- The boat is loaded up and weíre ready to start the family vacation. Engines have been running in the harbor and are warmed up. We go a few hundred yards to fuel up and after getting fuel, I restart the motors and notice more white smoke than I remember seeing before coming from the starboard side and make a mental note to pay closer attention. About 20 or 30 minutes later, I was going a little faster than cruising speed to make up for lost time but nothing extreme. Then all of a sudden I hear a very loud knocking sound. I immediately pulled back on both throttles and put both engines in neutral. I turn off the port motor, knock continues. I turn off the starboard motor and knock goes away. I ask my wife to restart the starboard motor while I go to the ER to see if I can find anything obvious. There was a lot of smoke and the fuel leak was pretty excessive, worse than itís been, and the knock started right away and was loud enough to make me very nervous so I signaled to my wife to turn it off right away. I think the fuel was on the exhaust manifold, so maybe this is a blessing in disguise- I donít know if it would get hot enough to ignite or not?? I didn't think so, but maybe I was wrong

We limped out on the port motor to a nearby cove and anchored up for the night in order to try to make the trip not be a complete loss. I started the motor the next morning and the knock was still there so I turned it right off. On the way back in, I talked to my friends wifes uncle (ever see Ferris Bueller? Anyone? Anyone?) who is not a mechanic but a fisherman that has had CATs for years. His recommendation is to fix the fuel leak first since I know that problem exists. Unfortunately fishing season is here so all of the people that know about these things are either booked solid or out fishing. The great news is that after I put in the new seal, it doesnít leak or need priming anymore, so the seal fix worked for that. But the knock is still there. This brings me to June 24th when I came to the forum I have learned to trust and love, and hopefully contribute to someday instead of just leach info from all of you...

I got directions on how to replace the throttle shaft seal from boatdiesel, and it didnít mention removing any fuel lines, so I didnít. It wasnít easy to get the air intake manifold off that way but it worked. Thats how Iíve been able to crack open injector bolts and try to do other diagnostics you all have mentioned since I originally posted. I have kept the intakes covered up when not on the boat and I am confident that nothing has fallen in, but this all started before any of that was ever removed anyway. I tried listening with a screwdriver, cracking injector lines, and correcting valve lash (twice). I have posted here, boat diesel, and paid for an opinion on justanswer.com, been on the phone and email with the CAT shop, had a couple of pseudo-mechanics offer opinions, talked to experienced boaters at work, and anything else I can do. I am in the process of looking for a lab to get oil analyses but ran out of time before I head out of town tomorrow morning. To be honest, I don't have a lot of faith in the shop that says I need to spend 35k without even seeing the motor. This is the same shop that said the motors were fine 7 weeks ago. I'm not saying they're crooked, but I'll probably get a 2nd opinion before going back to them. After everything lead to dead ends, I pulled the oil filter and found the flakes. I have not started it since then, nor do I plan to. Tonight I tried to drop the oil pan only to learn that the forward motor mount bracket is in the way. I have to go down to Klawock for work for the next 10 days and when I get back thereís a mechanic that wants me to give him a call so he can try to come take a look. Hopefully while Iím gone I can learn how to jack up my motor enough to remove those bolts without sending a jack through the bottom of the boat!

I don't know the RPMs because my tachs don't usually work. I try keep it around 7-9 knots and adjust the throttle so it sounds even. This is what I have seen from the PO, the surveyor, and the broker from another vessel I had surveyed in WA. When the knock started, I was probably closer to 12 knots. WOT gets me to about 17-18. The knock knocks at all RPMs, whether in neutral or in gear. If you would like any other info, let me know and I'll do my best.
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Old 07-07-2016, 06:04 AM   #60
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35k for a 3208 rebuild is crazy high. 3208 is hugely popular truck engine, and short blocks are everywhere. Possible 35K for cutting hole in boat to remove, patching hole, re paint, complete installation with sea trial, turn key out the door...?

Once you figure out the exact failure...upper end or lower end you'll know which direction to head.

My experience with those engines is that if piston bore is scored, you're better off to short block it vs re bore over sized. As others have said, some consider them throw away blocks.

I'd go for an oil sample even though you don't have a base line sample to compare it against. OS will be able to tell where the metal came from.

As others have said I wouldn't run it any more as a catastrophic failure could cost you big time in core charges. The problem could be in the lower end, and unnecessary running the engine could cause the problem to spread to the upper end.

I feel you're pain as I've been down this road a time or two with some of my heavy equipment. We had fairly good luck with 3208, but not so much with his little brother 3204.

Thanks for keeping this thread updated.

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