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Old 06-26-2016, 02:53 PM   #21
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I will go ahead and embarrass myself here attempting to add to the list of possible diagnoses.
Piece of number 8 injector tip break off and sitting on top of cylinder? I would think more of a miss than I heard in the video unless nozzle itself intact.
Sounds like more of a rap than a slap but wrist pin broke?
Seems like at least the head on that side and the pan are going to come off to get much further?
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Old 06-26-2016, 07:47 PM   #22
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Crack the injector line it on #8, if the knock stops get a rebuilt injector from your Cat dealer and swap it out. I've heard fuel knocks on several engines over the years but never a 3208. If it's not a fuel knock remove the oil filters and cut them open and remove the media and and check for any metal shavings. If there is metal you will most likely have to rebuild the bottom end.
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Old 06-26-2016, 08:12 PM   #23
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A mechanics stethoscope or a long screw driver (touching the handle end to your ear) will help you isolate the noise. Just start slowly touching each item under the cover until you find it or not. It truly does to me also sound like a valve train issue.
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Old 06-26-2016, 09:28 PM   #24
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Another trick is to rev engine to like 1500rpm, then hit stop button or turn key off. Listen to engine as it coasts down to a stop. If tick persists during coast down, then it is not injector or fueling related, as no fuel is being injected. Cheap and easy test.
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Old 06-26-2016, 09:51 PM   #25
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Oooooo! That's a really good one, Ski! I'm gonna remember that one.
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Old 06-27-2016, 12:47 AM   #26
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3208 are a parent metal block not replaceable sleeve type. With that said if the block is damaged a good engine machine shop can bore the block and press a sleeve in to repair damaged holes.
You might try pulling number 8 injector and swapping it with the one on the opposite end of the same head. If the noise moves the injector is a problem. If not then it is a cylinder problem
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Old 06-27-2016, 12:55 AM   #27
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thanks for the replies. I was able to check the temps on the exhaust manifold to try to find the guilty injector, if that's the problem. Temps were all about the same though, so that didn't help much. I took it easy today and will get up early and try the screwdriver stethoscope as well as revving it up and shutting it down to see what happens. I found out I can get parts here on the same day if I order them early enough from the Juneau CAT shop using one of the small airline companies that services around SE AK. Thursday I was able to order some gaskets and had them in hand just a couple hours later. Unfortunately, most of them were the wrong gaskets, but at least things can get here quickly when they're in stock
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Old 06-27-2016, 09:10 AM   #28
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Did you check blowby for puffing?
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Old 06-27-2016, 09:24 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
Another trick is to rev engine to like 1500rpm, then hit stop button or turn key off. Listen to engine as it coasts down to a stop. If tick persists during coast down, then it is not injector or fueling related, as no fuel is being injected. Cheap and easy test.
Awesome trick! Just goes to show you the great information obtained here? Thanks Ski!
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Old 06-27-2016, 10:22 AM   #30
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Rob,

You may wish to join boat diesel.com, there are several post of cat 3208s with similar issues. I have found this forum helpful.

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Old 06-27-2016, 10:58 AM   #31
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rob;
This won't help with solving anything but will hopefully give moral support.
I like your calm, through this thing; especially your clear and descriptive posts.

Both your posts and ski's are easy to follow and do generate good mental pictures. I sense no frustration at either end.

This thread is bound to help many others.
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Old 06-27-2016, 05:25 PM   #32
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Thanks Hawgwash, I must have you fooled because at this point I'm ready to blow the boat up and buy an old truck. That way, with only 17 miles of roads, if it doesn't run at least I don't feel like I'm missing much.

Old Deckhand- Thanks, I have thought about it but was hoping to fix it before it came to that. I guess I should go ahead and post it on boatdiesel too, I recently joined since buying the boat

Blowby: When replacing the throttle shaft seal, I removed the intake manifold and now I can't get it back on- the bolt holes won't line up (it's not even on backwards). I put a little bit of effort into it but decided to save my energy and frustration since I might just have to pull it right back off and am waiting for the correct replacement gaskets anyway. The ports that the push rods come up through all seem to be smoking equally though, if that matters.

I went to the boat this morning and started it up. When I listen with my ear, it sounds like it's definitely the #8 cylinder. When I try the screwdriver-as-a-stethoscope idea, I can't hear the knock anywhere. I tried all around the valves and exhaust manifold and just couldn't hear it.

After it was warmed up, I revved the engine to my best guess of around 1500 RPMs since that tach isn't working (Aetna thinks I need to use shielded cable, but that's a project that can wait) and turned the key off. The engine stopped almost immediately, no coasting to listen to that I could tell. It might have knocked once, but it stopped so fast I really can't say. I had to get back home and get ready for work, so I'll try again tomorrow.

I have not done the following from this forum: tear apart the oil filters to inspect the media, try to find a camera or boresight, swap injectors to see if the sound moves

The fisherman next to me said he doesn't think it sounds off at all, but that knock was absolutely not there one week ago, and when it started, it was very loud and obvious, so I don't think I've just lost my mind (but it's always a possibility)
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Old 06-27-2016, 05:57 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by robs523 View Post
The fisherman next to me said he doesn't think it sounds off at all, but that knock was absolutely not there one week ago, and when it started, it was very loud and obvious, so I don't think I've just lost my mind (but it's always a possibility)
Rob
If you haven't already done so, why don't you send the Youtube video file of the engine running to the Cat shop and get their opinion on the knock.

ps:
I don't want to question you mechanical skills. But every time I listen to your engine video, I come away thinking I'm hearing excess valve lash. Are you absolutely positive that each rocker was off it's cam lobe when you set the lash? Or maybe a broken spring or bent push rod?
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Old 06-27-2016, 08:59 PM   #34
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I never even thought of trying to send the video to the Cat shop, that's a great idea

By all means, question my mechanical skills. It's the first time I have done valves. Well, the first two times I guess. I did my best to do it exactly as the book explained but I have no reason to believe I still couldn't have done it wrong. I didn't see any broken springs and looked at all the push rods and they all looked straight and in tact. Hopefully I come away from this embarrassed by something cheap and easy, that would be great. And if it happens, sorry for wasting your time and I'll claim my account was hacked and I never wrote any of this...
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Old 06-29-2016, 04:06 AM   #35
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I have had the best luck when using the screwdriver or wood stick trick is to be wearing ear muffs. The muffs shut out the excess noise and by putting the handle on the muff you can her pretty darn good.
I had a 3208NA in a past boat that broke a valve spring. Ended up messing up one cylinder. My local Cat dealer just bored that cylinder and installed an oversized piston. When I asked him about the balance being off he told me Cat makes pistons both 30 and 60 oversized and they weigh the same as the stock ones. He said you could mix and match as needed. I am not a mechanic so take this with a grain of salt. I do know the engine ran very well for the next few years until I sold the boat.
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Old 06-29-2016, 07:50 AM   #36
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I cant hear a knock on your video..just valve "tappet" noise?
If none of the valves are sticking , ski already told you to check this and this is very important to be sure about, then I don't see this rattle is too much to worry about..... insufficient valve clearance leads to problems, too much clearance (within reason) results in nothing more than a slightly irritating noise just like this one.
If you have wear on the rocker arms, which you will have unless they have been replaced, then it is somewhere between difficult and impossible to set the valve clearance correctly.
You can try to waggle each rocker arm or the push rod ends up and down and see if they are all equally "loose" at the setting point, you might be able to find one that moves more than the rest ?? tighten this one up slightly ignoring the feeler gauges but ensuring you keep the push rod movement similar to the rest and hopefully the noise will go away...alternatively, if it was mine, I would just ignore it and get on using the boat. If it is something more serious it will soon let you know !!
I am assuming there is no connection between the noise and the original smoke...that's another thing it is easy to become obsessed with, its an old boat after all and some smoking on start up is to be expected, smoking under load is a different story.
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Old 06-30-2016, 11:49 AM   #37
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Thanks Stone Beach, the knock is brand new and pretty loud while operating the boat but harder to hear on my video. I sent the video to the nearest CAT shop and they said it's not fuel, it's metal on metal and I need to send them an oil filter and have them test an oil sample but they think it's in the bottom end based on the videos. I removed one filter and cut it open and there are some very small flakes, but not much. Then I realized that I might need to inspect both filters in case the other was the first filter and catching the larger stuff, if it's there, before the oil goes to the next filter. Or maybe I created the flakes while cutting the canister open.

So, How much metal in the oil is too much? I might cut the other filter open along with both on the port side just to look at all of them. They weren't due for a change yet but maybe I'll just go ahead and change it all anyway. Of course I might just have to do that again if there are new shavings made every time I run it and work on it until it's fixed.
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Old 06-30-2016, 11:57 AM   #38
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Thanks Stone Beach, the knock is brand new and pretty loud while operating the boat but harder to hear on my video. I sent the video to the nearest CAT shop and they said it's not fuel, it's metal on metal and I need to send them an oil filter and have them test an oil sample but they think it's in the bottom end based on the videos. I removed one filter and cut it open and there are some very small flakes, but not much. Then I realized that I might need to inspect both filters in case the other was the first filter and catching the larger stuff, if it's there, before the oil goes to the next filter. Or maybe I created the flakes while cutting the canister open.

So, How much metal in the oil is too much? I might cut the other filter open along with both on the port side just to look at all of them. They weren't due for a change yet but maybe I'll just go ahead and change it all anyway. Of course I might just have to do that again if there are new shavings made every time I run it and work on it until it's fixed.
I am thinking any metal that you can see with your naked eye is way too much. That is my very ignorant opinion.
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Old 06-30-2016, 12:09 PM   #39
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here are a couple pics. Doesn't seem to stick to the magnet, but they're so small I'm having a hard time keeping track of them when I try.
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Old 06-30-2016, 03:18 PM   #40
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Rob I had a similar knock ( ) and with the help of all the great members on the forum I was able to repair my engine. I'm thinking you might want to pull off the head and take a look. I've been there done that (Lehman 120 Piston slap ) and I wish you the best of luck. Mike
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