Cat 3208 n.a. coolant leak

[FF]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

I can only reach max RPM 2800 in nutral. Max RPM is about 2500. underway blows black smoke at WOT.

Now that you have some of the coolant leaks fixed its time to cure the overloading.

CATs are not particularly robust , so this becomes a priority.

*

IF reproping is not in the budget , allong with an injector check, at least an EGT will keep the damage down.

*

DO SOMETHING , or simply run 500RPM below wherever the black smoke begins.

 

[skipperdude]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

chc wrote:
Have you tried a pressure test on the system?

*Yup. Did that looking for the leak. Didn't show any drop in pressure.

Me thinks once the coolant was removed the o rings on the water sleeve dried out and caused it to leak ?? Could this be??

Regardless I know it leaks there now.

This weekend I begin tearing down the engine I.E. removing the heads.

I've talked to a lot of people on what I need to do. Sounds like nuts and bolts and a bit of grunting 120 lb head.

I found a place that will test all 8 injectors for $25.00. since thay have to come out to pull the head may as well. I have a knock somewhere I think it may be an injector.

SD

 

[skipperdude]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

FF wrote:
I can only reach max RPM 2800 in nutral. Max RPM is about 2500. underway blows black smoke at WOT.

Now that you have some of the coolant leaks fixed its time to cure the overloading.

CATs are not particularly robust , so this becomes a priority.

*

IF reproping is not in the budget , allong with an injector check, at least an EGT will keep the damage down.

*

DO SOMETHING , or simply run 500RPM below wherever the black smoke begins.

*Thanks. Perhaps all of the above

 

[skipperdude]

3208 n.a. coolant leak

As I said befor I've talked to a few people on removing the heads and injectors.

Anyone on the forum ever done this job before?

Any tips?

The little bugger I have to replace is seen between the red wire and the bleed tube hanging down at the end of the head,

*

SD



-- Edited by skipperdude on Thursday 26th of January 2012 12:03:56 PM



-- Edited by skipperdude on Thursday 26th of January 2012 12:06:52 PM


-- Edited by skipperdude on Thursday 26th of January 2012 12:09:10 PM

 

[FF]

3208 n.a. coolant leak

Any tips?

Think CAR , with just a bit heavier parts , but same skill set.

Most injector places will test your injectors for almost nothing ($5-$10 each), a full rebuild of your injectors is about $65 here in FL.

Sometimes during the rebuild you cam get "More" .

Better economy , more HP , less smoke , talk to the rebuilder.

*

CATS are the easyest of all if you need to retime them.The injection pump is loosened , a pin is installed , the pump locked down and the pin (a drill bit of the proper size) is removed.

*

GET DA BOOK!!!!!


-- Edited by FF on Friday 27th of January 2012 08:30:44 AM

 

[skipperdude]

3208 n.a. coolant leak

I was talking before about a snow ball well here goe's

From a coolant leak to a rebuild of the entire cooling system.

to replace the water sleeve*I had to pull the heads.

a few pic's of my weekend activities.

1*remove exhaust manifold. #2 manifold removed.#3 remove rocker arms. #4 remove rods. #5 the injectors. #6 clamps that hold the injectors. #7*injectors removed. #8 head removed.*

On that last pic you can see the lady's foot I used to remove the injectors. I don't want to bore anyone but if there is any intrest*I can describe this top end rebuild as*I go along. *I am doing most of the work myself.

*I will be doing a valve job. After discovering 3 exhaust and one*intake valve to be leaking.

As long as I had the heads off. I did a little test to check the valves.

By spraying some break clean around the face of the valve. I used a*small shop vac* set on blow to blow air into the exhaust port. The same for the intake port. Bubbles were produced by the leaking valves.

I don't know yet if I can just lap them or if they need to be reground. I will pull the valves next.

SD

The injectors showed a few abnormalities in the spray pattern on the surface of the heads.





*



-- Edited by skipperdude on Sunday 29th of January 2012 10:54:28 PM



-- Edited by skipperdude on Sunday 29th of January 2012 10:54:53 PM


-- Edited by skipperdude on Sunday 29th of January 2012 11:08:45 PM

 

[FF]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

It is a good idea to check the valves for leaks after their service.

Level the head and fill each combustion chamber with diesel.

If the chamber stays full, its reinstall time.

 

[gordytwo]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

Hi, I've been following your thread and saw the pictures this morning. The shot of your exhaust manifold seems to show that the manifold does not have the Cat riser bolted to it. It looks like there is a direct connection of the exhaust hose to it. Could you tell us or show pictures of the rest of the exhaust system in your enginne room. Since the Cat risers seem to be a source of concern with the NA engines your setup looks very interesting. Getting rid of them would be a wellcome alternative. Thanks.

 

[skipperdude]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

gordytwo wrote:
Hi, I've been following your thread and saw the pictures this morning. The shot of your exhaust manifold seems to show that the manifold does not have the Cat riser bolted to it. It looks like there is a direct connection of the exhaust hose to it. Could you tell us or show pictures of the rest of the exhaust system in your enginne room. Since the Cat risers seem to be a source of concern with the NA engines your setup looks very interesting. Getting rid of them would be a wellcome alternative. Thanks.

*There is the rub.

I don't have them. I have a dry stack exhaust.

Right off the end of the exhaust manifold to a cross over and up through the roof.

SD

 

[Sealegs]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

skipperdude wrote:
I don't want to bore anyone but if there is any intrest*I can describe this top end rebuild as*I go along. *I am doing most of the work myself.
_______________________________________________________

Please continue with the details including pictures.* I've a 3208NA and am very interested.* And thanks for sharing.* Unfortunately I don't have any expertise to share with you.* Would if I did.*

We had the injectors replaced on Figment when we purchased her.* No maintenace records from the PO and ~4500 hours and wanted to know where we were.* May have wasted the $s and will likely never know.

DWG

Figment - KK48NS

*

*
*
*

 

[Sealegs]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

gordytwo inquired about pics of skipperdudes's Cat exhaust risers and skipperdude has a dry exhaust system.* I don't know what the standard Cat configuration is.*

Since we have a 3208NA with wet exhaust I'll provide some pics.* Hope they help.* We had fiberglass cloth wrapped on our exhaust risers when we purchased Figment and it was strongly suggested by the engine surveyor that we replace it as it was deteriorating.* So we ran it for about 6 weeks and then had that done.* I've four photos showing the original condition, an image with the insulation removed, and a final pic with the new insulation installed.* Work was done by Ballard Insulation in Seattle with me doing a bunch of clean up after they were through.*

DG

Figment

 

[skipperdude]

3208 n.a. coolant leak

I will post pic's of my dry stack on Monday as the boat is 60 miles from me.

We hot tanked the heads and pulled a couple of the valves today. The two we looked at were quite pitted and leaking so they need to be reground. Luckily I have access to* valve grinding equipment. The intake and exhaust valves are ground to different degrees. The old valves appear to be grind able. so all I need to do is grind them, lap them in and install new valve seat seals.

The top end gasket kit should have all the pieces parts I need to finish up the heads. I will know more tomorrow if the grinding*is within tolerances.

The angle of the valve is 30 deg +or- 1/4. The angle of the valve seat is 1*degree under. That's intake.

the exhaust is 45 deg +or-1/4. the seat is 1 degree under.

The minimum lip on the valve is 70,000 intake and 50,000 for exhaust.

A little woried about that one we will see what the micrometer says.

SD*

*


-- Edited by skipperdude on Tuesday 31st of January 2012 01:57:57 PM

 

[skipperdude]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

Sealegs wrote:*

*

We had the injectors replaced on Figment when we purchased her.* No maintenace records from the PO and ~4500 hours and wanted to know where we were.* May have wasted the $s and will likely never know.

DWG

Figment - KK48NS*

*If the injectors are bad you usually can tell by the sound. Usually a hard knock.* That's if one is leaking or dribbling you get too much fuel in the cylinder. So you would have to remember what you had before.

You can check them yourself. If you take a wrench and crack the nut where the fuel goe's into the head you will hear a difference in the sound of the engine. Be sure to place an oil diaper around the nut as you crack it. it will spurt some fuel. The difference you will hear is that cylinder not firing. as it is getting no fuel. If you had a knock before and not now you have an injector problem in that cylinder.

SD

*

*

 

[skipperdude]

3208 n.a. coolant leak

I was asked about my exhaust system. As I said I have a dry stack. These first two pictures are of the system.

To continue with the rebuild of my top end. I hauled the heads into town to a friends shop where the valves were reground and new valve guide seals were installed.

A week later back at the boat the heads were reinstalled on the block.

The leaking water sleeve was replaced. *First pic second row

After torquing the head bolts and reinstalling the injectors the problems began. First one of the clamps that hold the injectors failed. Next the end cap for the rocker arms.*A cast aluminum piece was found broken.*Two small items I consider myself lucky as these were the only real problems encountered during the rebuild. The last pic is the hole where the injector clamp is supposed to fit right between the two valve springs. I need to find someone with long skinny fingers to get the clamp assembly into place.

This all started as a coolant leak and now I have a just about rebuilt engine Wheeww!!! *All that remains is a new metal gasket for the exhaust manifold.

And two replace*Two small parts. I brought the manifolds back to town where I intend to hot tank, sand blast and paint. I will show the finished product next week.

SD



*


-- Edited by skipperdude on Sunday 5th of February 2012 09:25:47 PM

 

[Edelweiss]

3208 n.a. coolant leak

Nice!!* I wish I could put my air intake on the top of the engine like that.* Mine is under the raw water supply*elbow*to the exhaust manifold.* If it leaks, guess where the salt water goes?

LB


-- Edited by Edelweiss on Sunday 5th of February 2012 08:55:46 PM

 

[skipperdude]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

It's really an interesting thing to do if you want to know the truth. Doing the rebuild*I mean.

The more you understand how things work the better you are able to effect repair in case of an emergency.

*I live in an area where it is very easy to be in a place where no one is around.* Best response time can take hours.

My signature say's it all for me.

I know more about my engine than i did before.

*The task is not over there is still the valves to adjust.

*It will require hand cranking a 3208.

I have a good book and the Internet is a great reference source.

Question: One of the old fellows in the shop suggested setting the valves all*1 point*under at a cold set. For instance the book says 15 you set it at 14.

The idea the valves will seat better. without having to re adjust them after a few hours running.

*Any thoughts?

SD

*

 

[Edelweiss]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

Yeah, I agree.* When I bought my boat, I had experience working on gas engines, but knew nothing about diesel.* I've learned a lot over the years and do most of my mechanical myself.*

I check my lifters clearances in the Spring at the beginning of boating season.* The port engine is usually right on, but the starboard alway has a couple of lifters that have loosed up a bit.* *I have always set mine close to factory specs as it's fairly easy to run through them.* Get yourself a good breaker bar and a length of pipe for leverage.* I always cut the power to the starter and just use the bar.* Guy in our marina got a broken ankle*trying to use the bar and bump the starter.*He forgot to remove the braker bar and hit the starter, Ouch!!*

Larry B

 

[FF]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

"without having to re adjust them after a few hours running."

Any thoughts?

Checking the valves after a run is not only to check how the valves seated.

It also checks the workmanship (was the cam really not lifting? are the adjustment lock nuts really tight enough?)

A 10 hour check IS worth the effort. Even if it requires re torquing the head.

 

[JD]

3208 n.a. coolant leak

skipperdude wrote:Question: One of the old fellows in the shop suggested setting the valves all*1 point*under at a cold set. For instance the book says 15 you set it at 14.
The idea the valves will seat better. without having to re adjust them after a few hours running.

*Any thoughts?

SD*

*I'm not much for that.* But if you are going to do it I think that you may have miss understood what fellow suggested.* You would want to go to .016" if the set was to be .015".* As the valve seats it's clearance at the push rod and rocker*will, if anything get smaller.* That really should not happen if they were lapped in properly.**

I would set them at what ever clearances the book says and then after an hour of so readjust them.* If it is to be done cold wait several hours.* The internals of the engine will be warm for hours after it has run.* Over night would be best.

On re-torquing the head.* Remember to break each bolt loose before you re-torque it.*There should be a sequence in the manual if not start in the center and work out in a circular pattern.*But you can not torque a bolt from where it is.* If the torque is to be say 120 ft/lbs it may take more than that to break it loose once the engine has run for to or so hours, so if you just pull on a bolt it may seem to pass the 120 mark when it is really not correct.* So break it loose then pull to 120 in one steady pull.


*


-- Edited by JD on Monday 6th of February 2012 10:00:45 AM

 

[skipperdude]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

I Copy you on that one* JD.

*My first mate is a mechanic at a Chrysler Delership and has all the right tools.

We discussed all the things you mentioned. and got all the torque spec s right on.

I think you were right on the set for the valves I just got it mixed up.

Thanks

SD**

 

[JD]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

skipperdude wrote:
I Copy you on that one* JD.

*My first mate is a mechanic at a Chrysler Delership and has all the right tools.

We discussed all the things you mentioned. and got all the torque spec s right on.

I think you were right on the set for the valves I just got it mixed up.

Thanks

SD**

*Glad to help.* Have fun.

 

[skipperdude]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

FF wrote:
Checking the valves after a run is not only to check how the valves seated.

It also checks the workmanship (was the cam really not lifting? are the adjustment lock nuts really tight enough?)

*Thanks FF this may work for someone who has done it hundreds of times I will follow your words.

*Da book.

SD

 

[Per]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

i am really impressed, huge job and you seem to breeze right through it.
which book are you referring to? and also which places on the web have you found to be best resources?

 

[skipperdude]

3208 n.a. coolant leak

Per,

*I opened an account at a Cat dealer. If you do this you can have access to there parts store.

That has assembly and disassembly instructions.

A Cat dealer will have access to any book you may need. Spendy but if you have to do any work on a 3208 it is worth having.

Also check Ebay and craigs list for cat books.

*You have to go by your serial number. When looking a books. Just like ordering parts.

As to the book. I have it is an older one for a 3208 n.a. truck* engine. It is still worth having.

As far as other web sites. Man I looked at so many I can't really recall any specific site. *Sorry. The best one was the Cat* Parts store.

SD

*


-- Edited by skipperdude on Monday 6th of February 2012 12:43:59 PM

 

[FF]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

For folks with DD 71 series Da Book to get was Navy created during WWII to train thousands on the art of keeping them operating,

On line there $50 to $75 and with modest talent all PM and many repairs can be done.

 

[skipperdude]

3208 n.a. coolant leak

Per wrote:
*huge job and you seem to breeze right through it.

Not a breeze I can tell you that. trying to get two 120# heads up to the truck on a dock covered with ice. I kept imagining one falling off and sliding into the water.

*the exhaust manifolds were a bit easyer.

This is what they looked like as I prepare to sand blast and hot tank them.

SD


*



*



*



-- Edited by skipperdude on Wednesday 8th of February 2012 11:26:24 AM


-- Edited by skipperdude on Wednesday 8th of February 2012 11:40:52 AM

 

[Codger2]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

I'm truly impressed but I'll really be impressed when you get it all back together and it starts!

 

[skipperdude]

3208 n.a. coolant leak

Walt!!* *Don't say things like that, you will jinx me for sure.

Just kidding. But truthfully I feel the same way.

If you followed along on this tread you will see what it took to find a coolant leak. But I think I have finally got a handle on it.

*Truth be told it was one big dread and a lot of worry.

I found something interesting one of the cylinders seems to have been sleeved there is about 1/32 inch gap at the top of the cylinder. To put it another way the sleeve is below the surface of the top of the block. There was also a lot of x-tra carbon built up. I wasn't about to get into the block itself so*I just put it all back together. It was running fine the way it was.

This whole project was big enough as it is*

SD


-- Edited by skipperdude on Tuesday 7th of February 2012 04:14:34 PM

 

[JD]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

SeaHorse II wrote:I'm truly impressed but I'll really be impressed when you get it all back together and it starts!

*Piece of cake.* I want to know how many parts are left over.* There is the real test.

 

[skipperdude]

RE: 3208 n.a. coolant leak

Better not be any parts left over.

*I bagged and labeled every nut, bolt and piece that came off. Every bolt went back into the hole it came out of.

Except for the ones I replaced with new.

I've never done anything like this before so I got kind of picky about it.

Besides we have had a tough winter and I can't use the boat anyhow.

No better time to have her down.

SD