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Old 09-03-2016, 08:35 PM   #21
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https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/si...res/972957.pdf
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Old 09-03-2016, 11:03 PM   #22
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nice article
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:55 AM   #23
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Personally, I have never heard anything bad about by-pass filtering, other than unless you do long distances the cost versus savings issue is not so clear cut, but in the longer run, they are a definite plus, and as you are not the first owner, you are into the 'long run', right?. The trucking industry swears by them, so if you are lucky enough for some obsessive PO to have installed them, I would strongly advise you to just keep them.

Just figure out a way of avoiding having to be squeezing past them for while they are still hot. I never go moving about in my ER while running, so why should you. Yeah, there are a lot of fussy folk out there who feel better if they do, but keeping an eye on your instruments is usually adequate, and maybe seeing up an ER camera if you must.
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Old 09-04-2016, 05:22 AM   #24
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Keep them and start doing regular oil analysis.

You might find you rarely have to change your oil.
Surely you jest.
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Old 09-04-2016, 05:41 AM   #25
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The trucking industry swears by them.
Not so in the dirt moving business. Nor for those heads up truckers who have a Cat, Cummins, Deere, Volvo or MTU engine maintenance and warranty program.

Also, comparing a high use commercial diesel to a 100 hour or so per year marine engine is incorrect. Go by the book, it ends the casual boaters guessing and old wives tales.

To the OP, the premise of Gulf Coast filters dates back to ancient times. Think Fred Flintstone. Doubtful they are hurting anything, but they are of no help if you use OEM or equivalent filters. What year and brand engines?
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Old 09-04-2016, 06:28 AM   #26
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Just figure out a way of avoiding having to be squeezing past them for while they are still hot. I never go moving about in my ER while running, so why should you. Yeah, there are a lot of fussy folk out there who feel better if they do, but keeping an eye on your instruments is usually adequate, and maybe seeing up an ER camera if you must.
I try to go down there hourly to take in the sights, smells and sounds. This practice saved my skin when a gasket on one of the injector pumps blew and spewed 5 gallons of fuel an hour into the engine pan. Had I continued on that day for another couple more hours we'd have had a major clean-up of fuel in the bilges, and probably an environmental issue.

Overall, I can live with the bypass filters, I was just wondering if they're worth the inconvenience.

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What year and brand engines?
1982 Perkins T-6.354's, coming up on 2,300 hours each.
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Old 09-04-2016, 06:51 AM   #27
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"I was just wondering if they're worth the inconvenience."

Just look at your oil.

Is it almost clear or black black stuff loaded with carbon & fines?

An engine with clean oil should last longer.
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:50 AM   #28
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I' don't know if I would remove them as there seems to be evidence that they remove additional contaminants. Certainly wouldn't invest the money to install them. For my money, more frequent oil & filter changes are a better proven investment.

+1 for oil analysis. Mine costs about $20 including shipping from Blackstone. Think you can learn a lot from the analysis. My John Deere has several oil change interval recommendations based on type of oil and fuel. Not sure at what percentage of load their numbers are based on. One of the nice features of oil analysis from Blackstone is the ability to see how my hours compare to JD's hours. For the last analysis my 224 hours compared to what they would consider normal at 150 hours. Clearly I'm not running at the load level JD uses for their recommendation. Also available from Blackstone (for additional $) is additive analysis which will tell you the percentage of the additives remaining in your oil. I'm still working to determine an oil & filter change interval I feel comfortable with. Oil analysis takes it to a whole new level.

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Old 09-04-2016, 08:17 AM   #29
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If they are hot, then the oil is moving and they are working. If they cool down, the flow is stopping up, less flow they cool off, then you can know time to change the rolls.
As they slowly clog up, their filtration power improves.
It is the tiny fines at 5 -20 micron particle size of silica dust and grits in oil that these filter out that your full flow filter simply passes that wear engines.

On my engines, I have 2 micron bypass and full flow filters.
I dont change my bypass filter cartridge untill they no longer get hot.
https://www.amsoil.com/bypass/how-it-works.aspx

I put a bypass filter that uses toilet paper rolls on my Buick 350 LT1 Roadmaster.
I used synthetic Mobil 1 oil and ran that oil 30,000 miles with oil filter changes and the engine is in great shape. Every time I change filters it is taking out a qt of oil and adding in a new. Lately I have been getting lazy with doing anything with the car's oil.
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Old 09-04-2016, 10:55 AM   #30
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Surely you jest.
No I'm not.

See Ted's post.
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Old 09-04-2016, 11:05 AM   #31
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"I was just wondering if they're worth the inconvenience."

Just look at your oil.

Is it almost clear or black black stuff loaded with carbon & fines?

An engine with clean oil should last longer.
In a diesel engine, unless it's a brand new engine, the oil stays clear for only a short time.

So a visual check of the oil tills you little about the true condition of the oil.
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Old 09-04-2016, 02:21 PM   #32
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OK, the consensus seems to be "keep 'em." I like the theory that if they're getting hot, they're not plugged.

BTW, these things take closer to a gallon of extra oil each, not a quart. If nothing else, having that extra gallon of oil circulating in the engine can't be a bad thing.

I think I'll check out Blackstone. I've just put 150 hours on the mains in less than a month and a half; this should be a good baseline. I usually change the oil at 100 hours or less, if I haven't gone out much that season. I guess if the results come back and say my main bearings are shot, I'll have something else to keep me awake nights
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Old 09-04-2016, 03:03 PM   #33
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I think I'll check out Blackstone. I've just put 150 hours on the mains in less than a month and a half; this should be a good baseline. I usually change the oil at 100 hours or less, if I haven't gone out much that season. I guess if the results come back and say my main bearings are shot, I'll have something else to keep me awake nights
If you think you will use the analysis a number of times, there is a significant incentive to prepay. I do about 6 tests a year between boats and truck, so it's worth the savings.

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Old 09-04-2016, 04:35 PM   #34
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I've used bypass filters and centrifuges for about 50 years. Properly used, they greatly extend engine life. Bypass filters work on the principal that the slower oil passes thru the filter, the more dirt is captured. Standard full flow filters don't capture dirt much below 30 microns. Bypass filters often capture dirt to 1 or less microns.
What really determines an engines overhaul needs are ring and sleeve wear. Rings carry oil up the cylinder for lubrication. Sleeves/cylinders have small scratches (cross hatching) that allows for oil travel. Once the cross hatching is worn away, the sleeve and rings wear quickly. Dirt carried in oil causes the wear. No dirt, little wear.
I'm old and have owned or operated dozens of engines. Almost every engine I owned had a bypass filter and went 2x or more times the usual overhaul hours. Now I centrifuge the oil and capture particles well below 1 micron. I have the oil analyzed and change at 500 hours. The oil is still transparent.
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Old 09-04-2016, 05:43 PM   #35
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I would love to see any documentation from 3rd party investigations on whether bypass filtering extends engine life.


Seems like it would...but the actual recommendations from engine manufacturers don't seem to be coming to the forefront supporting this.


If they are I have missed it and would enjoy the read.


Any documentation beyond thread entries?
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:18 PM   #36
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There's a lot of info on the web. Some industry sources and many selling bypass filters. Engine manufacturers have no real interest in doubling engine life unless their competitors do so. They'd rather sell parts, short blocks or new engines. Every ship or large commercial boat I've been on either has a centrifuge or bypass filters. Most industrial users, oil rigs, mine equipment, large trucks have them, too.
I don't sell bypass filters. Use them or not.
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Old 09-04-2016, 09:12 PM   #37
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Sure there is a lot of info on the web..too much to sort out unless you have a link to something substantive from a third party comparison...otherwise it is white noise from just anyone and makers of bypass filtering.
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Old 09-04-2016, 09:27 PM   #38
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Understanding Engine Oil Bypass Filtration

""With bypass filtration, the flow rate can be greatly reduced, allowing for a much smaller pore size while retaining a normal pressure differential. The result is much cleaner oil being returned to the sump. Smaller soot suspension and polar insolubles that are not controlled by the full-flow filter can now be taken out of the system. When combined with a full-flow filter, bypass filtration offers the benefits of lower wear generation rates, lower oil consumption, higher combustion efficiency and longer oil life.

In a case study performed by General Motors and published by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE), it was determined that engine service life could be extended eight times when 5-micron filtration is implemented vs. the standard 40-micron filtration."
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Old 09-04-2016, 10:06 PM   #39
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Sure there is a lot of info on the web..too much to sort out unless you have a link to something substantive from a third party comparison...otherwise it is white noise from just anyone and makers of bypass filtering.
PSN

You have summed it up, white noise. The difficulty with posting a dealer supported treatise is exactly that, advertising and marketing claims and promises.

An additional question to the OP's is "Why do recreational marine engines fail?" Assuming one does the recommended routine oil and filter changes, engine failures due to lubrication would be way down the cause list.

What does in a non marine dirt moving engine can indeed be filtration, air filtration. Having lived and worked through more than half a century of dirt moving diesels spanning many hundreds iof engines, lubrication related failures were a result of low oil levels, broken gears in oil pumps and oil cooler failure.
During my career the opportunities to do in house tests, studies and view supplier provided history was quite informative.

The whole game plan was to keep the wheels rolling. Extended oil life was one thing, quicker oil changes another. But this type of up time improvement was a cooperative effort between the suppliers and end users. Everybody had skin in the game.

Nothing the matter with more oil filtration, but if it comes with faith based belief rather than facts then I say BS. Especially when the word rare is used to define oil change intervals.
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Old 09-04-2016, 10:23 PM   #40
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By pass filtration seems to me to be fuel polishing by using the engine's oil pump instead of a dedicated pump.
But I know little about it. I don't polish and I don't by-pass. But re the OP if I bought a boat w a good by pass filter I'd keep it and maintain it.
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