Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-23-2013, 09:45 AM   #1
Guru
 
CaptTom's Avatar
 
City: Southern Maine
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cygnus
Vessel Model: Prairie 36 Coastal Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,530
Bypass Oil Filters - Gulf Coast

A PO installed a pair of Gulf Coast bypass lube oil filters:


I've never run these, but I figure extra filtering of lube oil is a good thing, right?

The time has come to change the engine oil (or maybe not, I have no record of when it was last done.) At any rate, I'm going to.

From what I've read in the manual I downloaded, you just replace the paper towel roll inside. Is that all there is to it?

I'd also be interested to hear if anyone has a strong opinion against using these.
__________________
Advertisement

CaptTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 10:56 AM   #2
Guru
 
Sailor of Fortune's Avatar
 
City: Saint Augustine, Fl.
Country: Port of St Augustine ,FL
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,110
I would get an initial and ongoing oil analysis. GCF are supposed to be effective to reduce the frequency of routine oil changes. The oil analysis will provide a true picture and verify that all is well (or not). The military and large oil companies use GCF on there equipment. Since I don't have first hand experience with them, my free advice is worth every penny you paid!
__________________

Sailor of Fortune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 08:42 PM   #3
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: B.C.
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer sedan 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,076
I looked into these things years ago and decided, NO. However, you already have them so carry on. The extra oil it keeps in the system is generally a good thing.

I agree though with Sailor of Fortune, get an oil sample/test done before you change the oil. Anytime someone is trying to run extended oil change intervals it does need to be done in combination with proper testing.
C lectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 06:03 AM   #4
Guru
 
CaptTom's Avatar
 
City: Southern Maine
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cygnus
Vessel Model: Prairie 36 Coastal Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,530
OK, OK. I'll look at oil analysis. It certainly can't hurt to establish a baseline. I have to say, I always thought that sort of thing was for large organizations where trends can be tracked fleet-wide and maintenance intervals can be based on statistics instead of just hours.

I have no plans to use the GCFs to extend the interval to 1,000 hours or whatever the claim is. This first year I'll be lucky to get 100 hours on the engines, and I'll change it again next spring anyway. Once I get into longer-range cruising I'll go by engine hours instead of season.
CaptTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 08:10 AM   #5
Guru
 
Steve's Avatar
 
City: Thibodaux, Louisiana
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Gumbo
Vessel Model: 2003 Monk 36
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,721
A friend used them for years & still does, he has two Detroit Diesel about 150 HP
He told me he never changed his oil. When you take the paper towel out a lot of oil comes with it and he just added new oil to replace that. Those were on a houseboat so didn't get a lot of run time.
What about oil "additives" over time, I don't know, maybe oil analysis can determine their presence, thats another thing to check on.
Steve W.
\
If I remember right a certain brand of paper towel is recommended you might check with GCF.
__________________
Steve W.
http://mvgumbo.blogspot.com/
Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 08:30 AM   #6
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,528
Quote:
If I remember right a certain brand of paper towel is recommended you might check with GCF.
keep them they work.. bounty is the preferred. the bonus is you DO get to extend oil changes.. I did a bunch or research on these a few years back.. I ended up with Purifiner units but these do work

HOLLYWOOD
hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 08:46 AM   #7
Guru
 
CaptTom's Avatar
 
City: Southern Maine
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cygnus
Vessel Model: Prairie 36 Coastal Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,530
Wow. I don't think having GCFs means you NEVER have to change the oil. Of all the money we spend for our boats, fresh oil has to be one of the best investments.

I saw this line about the "quality" paper towels in the GCF instruction manaual: "NOTE! New roll must be quality 6" OD paper towel such as Scott."

Ahh, for the good old days when there was only one size and style of paper towels. I wonder what people will think when they see me in the supermarket going through all the paper towels with a tape measure? Scott is a middle-of-the-road brand nowadays. But for all I know the "stronger" or "quicker" towels may not filter as well.
CaptTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 10:32 AM   #8
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Not to be the naysayer but it sounds like a whole pile of work for not that much gain. Sampling, towel brand and size, adding oil anyway, additional potential leak/failure points and all.

Wouldn't the KISS thing to do be just change the oil once a year or more based upon hours?
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 11:00 AM   #9
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 16,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
Not to be the naysayer but it sounds like a whole pile of work for not that much gain. Sampling, towel brand and size, adding oil anyway, additional potential leak/failure points and all.

Wouldn't the KISS thing to do be just change the oil once a year or more based upon hours?
Agreed...I am way more worried and have a much better chance of an oil cooler failure than I do from wearing my engine out form properly maintained and changed oil. Even the selection of a better regular oil filter probably has more effect than adding a GCF to a good "stock" oil filter.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 12:45 PM   #10
Guru
 
CaptTom's Avatar
 
City: Southern Maine
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cygnus
Vessel Model: Prairie 36 Coastal Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
Wouldn't the KISS thing to do be just change the oil once a year or more based upon hours?
Yes, and the irony is that I'm going to do that anyway. Still, I don't see any good reason to remove the GCFs. As was pointed out, if nothing else they increase the total inventory of oil circulating through the engine.
CaptTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 02:08 PM   #11
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptTom View Post
A PO installed a pair of Gulf Coast bypass lube oil filters.

Are they the only oil filters now?
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 02:25 PM   #12
Guru
 
CaptTom's Avatar
 
City: Southern Maine
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cygnus
Vessel Model: Prairie 36 Coastal Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
Are they the only oil filters now?
No, the normal engine lube oil filters are installed, and have a date written on them of just about a year and a half ago. I suspect they're like the fuel filters, the PO went to NAPA and had them look up something that would (sort of) fit. I'll have to do some homework to find the RIGHT filters this time.
CaptTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 03:06 PM   #13
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptTom View Post
No, the normal engine lube oil filters are installed ...
Ah, so. In that case, and in keeping with your thought "if nothing else they increase the total inventory of oil circulating through the engine," I would leave them plumbed in but not bother with putting paper towels in them.

Given the fact that the quality control and specifications for paper towels might be somewhat less restrictive than we hope apply to proper filter media, I would be very concerned about debris from dissolving paper entering the lube oil system and potentially causing more problems.

If someone feels the need to "polish" lube oil, they might consider installing an aftermarket "spinner" type unit to capture solids:

Models and Specs : Spinner IIģ Products : High-efficiency lube oil filtration for heavy-duty diesel engines.
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 03:46 PM   #14
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 16,887
My thoughts exactly....not sure exactly how abrasive cellulose is, some reports say it is, some say it's not...got to think engine components are harder but I haven't seen any data.

Just have never really read anything (other than probable propaganda) that says normal engine filtration systems are inadequate for superior engine life...not until you get into some pretty sophisticated systems on engines that are 24/7 usage where service interruption would be inconvenient.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 04:05 PM   #15
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post

Just have never really read anything (other than probable propaganda) that says normal engine filtration systems are inadequate for superior engine life...not until you get into some pretty sophisticated systems on engines that are 24/7 usage where service interruption would be inconvenient.
Even then the supplemental systems are very effective and well proven devices such as heaters and centrifuges and self cleaning filters. On large engines we sample and test onboard and correct TBN as needed to compensate for fuel specs.

I'll stick my neck out and say that for engines less than around 5000 hp, the lubrication system bolted on the engine by the manufacturer along with the manufacturer's operating book and maintenance schedule is all you need to obtain long and dependable service.

There is a peculiar culture (?) among recreational boaters to complain about the price of required parts while happily finding a reason to justify the purchase of a device which, to be kind, might best be described as the product of voodoo engineering and technical folklore.
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 04:07 PM   #16
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 16,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
Even then the supplemental systems are very effective and well proven devices such as heaters and centrifuges and self cleaning filters. On large engines we sample and test onboard and correct TBN as needed to compensate for fuel specs.

I'll stick my neck out and say that for engines less than around 5000 hp, the lubrication system bolted on the engine by the manufacturer along with the manufacturer's operating book and maintenance schedule is all you need to obtain long and dependable service.

There is a peculiar culture (?) among recreational boaters to complain about the price of required parts while happily finding a reason to justify the purchase of a device which, to be kind, might best be described as the product of voodoo engineering and technical folklore.
I'll drink to that...in fact I am!!! Hope you are enjoying too (whether drinking or not!!!
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 10:44 PM   #17
Guru
 
Edelweiss's Avatar
 
City: PNW
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 1976 Californian Tricabin LRC
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,842
How true, I think it's a mind set that started with snake oil salemen traveling around the country selling remedies that cured everything. lol

When we bought our first boat, my father who was a big fan of engine oil and fuel additives, like Bardole, STP, Hilton Hyperlube, etc. asked the Perkins dealership what additives we should be using. The man responded, "Well they're really not necessary, but if you are going to add something then use this product......at least it won't hurt anything."

Much to my chagrin we headed directly to a supply store so Dad could buy the "not necessary" additive product.

He was from that generation who believed that, "If a little bit was good, then a lot more must be better!"

LB
__________________
Larry B
Careful . . .I Have a Generator and I'm not afraid to use it !
Edelweiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 09:09 AM   #18
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,278
I agree w Rick that paper towels are not designed to filter engine oil and may be questionable for that purpose. Car bypass oil filtration used toilet paper (as in ass wipe) as the filtering element. I've always thought of that as questionable.

But bypass oil filtration was the only filters on cars before "full flow" fitlers came along .. in the late 50s I think. The only reason (as I recall) to go to "full flow" filters was to make sure you got that hunk of grud before it was pumped to the engine bearings. And the only reason to stay w the bypass filter was that it was supposed to do a much better job of filtering other than letting some crud "by pass" the filter.

Well the very obvious thing to do here is to employ both full flow and by pass filtration. But if one is to use a 2 micron "full flow" filter there seems little use to halving a by pass filter. I switched to 10 micron several years back after hearing or reading there was no need for filtering as fine as 2 micron. Did I get the right information or what? If it IS true one would have no practical use for by pass filtering at all. However filtering out very fine contaminants may have benefits or even great benefits but how's an average Joe (Eric) going to know such a thing?

Evolution ... one of my favorite words. It HAS evolved that we don't need by pass filtration as is evident by the (as far as I know) total lack of it coming from all but questionable aftermarket suppliers. And if toilet paper or paper towels was the best filtering element why do we never see same used in cars, trucks and boats coming from industry?

I suspect that the by pass filters make the oil look clean (less black) by filtering out harmless stuff that causes oil to look dirty (ewe black). It must be harmless as nobody in industry is making any effort filter "it" out.

I read or was told somewhere that what caused oil to turn black was the accumulation of carbon. AND I was also told that carbon is a very hard and abrasive material that caused much engine wear.

I'd be interested in hearing fiction and fact about all of the above.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 10:02 AM   #19
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
It HAS evolved that we don't need by pass filtration as is evident by the (as far as I know) total lack of it coming from all but questionable aftermarket suppliers.
That is not quite accurate. There are several bypass lube oil filtration systems available from highly reputable manufacturers and some of them are standard or optional equipment on engines direct from the manufacturer.

I don't have a photo to insert here at the moment but will take a couple on a boat later today that has 2 spinner type bypass filters installed on each engine.

If you want to start learning a bit about lube oil filtration, Cummins published an excellent guide:

http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdf...LT32599_03.pdf
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 12:36 PM   #20
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Thanks for the excellent links Rick. I do not pretend to know anything substantive about either oil or fuel filtering. We have a service agreement with the local CAT dealer to service our standby generators. The mechanic that serves our equipment has worked for CAT over 20 years.

I asked the mechanic once what is the best micron count for a filter? He told me if the average user uses the factory recommended filter types and sizes along with recommended service intervals and procedures it would be mighty difficult to go wrong. He also told me the average user that does get worked up about micron size typically does not understand the subject as well as they think they do.

One of our units is approaching 30 years old without any issues. The factory recommendation appears to work for us.
__________________

__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012