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Old 09-10-2010, 02:54 PM   #1
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Buying a used trawler

I've had two sailboats but need something less labor intensive. I've looked at a 1987 KADLEY KROGEN 42 Pilothouse Trawler. It has a Ford-Lehman Super 135 with (5600 hrs) which seems to be almost double the time of other trawlers this age. Of course all the other systems on the boat will have similar high time.

Will an oil analysis provide me with any worthwhile information and is this considered well into the useful life for this engine?
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Old 09-10-2010, 03:23 PM   #2
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RE: Buying a used trawler

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Will an oil analysis provide me with any worthwhile information and is this considered well into the useful life for this engine?
Sort of.* The value of oil analysis is that when done periodically over a length of time it shows trends.* So if the analysis shows that something is starting to happen, steps can be taken to remedy the problem before it becomes so serious as to cause other damage.

A one-time analysis is better than nothing, particularly if the oil is "used"--- in other words dirty.* The one-time analysis will at least show if there are metals and other contaminents getting into the oil.

There are other things an engine surveyor can check for if he's given enough time to do it--- cylinder compression, changes in rpm and sound when the injectors are shut off one at a time while the engine is running, etc.

As to if 5600 hours is "well into" the life of the engine, that's probably more determined by how its been run, serviced, and maintained by previous owners than any direct correlation with hours.

The Jurassic FL120 is said to be a 12,000 to 14,000 hour engine in regular recreational service* (no sitting around for years without running) with proper operation, service, and maintenance.* I have no idea how the FL135 stacks up against this.* I've not come across the term "Super 135" before.* Is this*the official name of the FL135 or does it indicate something added, like turbocharging?
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Old 09-10-2010, 03:43 PM   #3
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RE: Buying a used trawler

Hiya,
** IMHO 5600 hrs is a GOOD thing (depending on, as Marin mentioned, proper service).* 5600 hrs. simply suggests the engine was exercised and not left to sit around.
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Old 09-10-2010, 03:59 PM   #4
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RE: Buying a used trawler

Thanks for ur input. I'm not familiar YEt with diesels used in trawlers but have seen many advertised with a Lehman S135.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:34 AM   #5
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RE: Buying a used trawler

Super 135 is the proper term. A marketing idea I'm sure. We have around 4100 hours on our 1983 engines and the boat was rarely used for a few years prior to our purchase. I also feel that more hours is probably a good thing. These engines are often said to be a "20,000 hour engine". While that would be hard to prove- sort of like the age of a dinosaur, I'm sure it would be reasonable to expect well over 10.000 hours of service life. That would probably add up to well over 20 more years of use on the basic engine. Twenty years from now I probably wouldn't be able to crawl in the "Holy Place" to check the oil anyway Keith- a participant on the forum- had his Krogen listed at one time. She is probably a cut above a lot of the listings out there.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:57 AM   #6
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RE: Buying a used trawler

Forklift is corrrect, talk with Keith. Some of the earlier KKs had cored hulls (below the waterline) which if not treated right resulted in some issues.

As far as engine life, it is the bolt ons that will kill most diesel engines - HXs, water pumps and fuel delivery systems. That said, on any older engine it is always a good idea to have a first class engine mechanical inspection if you get serious.

Better yet, talk the owner into a pre- survey engine inspection by a GOOD* diesel*mechanic familiar with the engine. That way you are only out the cost of the pre-survey inspection if problems are found the owner will not cover.
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Old 09-11-2010, 10:42 AM   #7
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RE: Buying a used trawler

Yea, that S = Super. No turbos or anything, just a good solid naturally aspirated engine. It's one of the reasons I bought my boat, just wanted a simple, reliable diesel. Those hours are nothing for that engine as long as it's been cared for. Yes, a single oil test will tell you something and is worth it, but only if the oil has at least 30 hours on it. If the engine has nice fresh clear oil in it, I'd be concerned that the owner is trying to hide something. A compression test would be good to have as well.

The coring in the hulls is Airex PVC foam (or equivalent). Not so problematic as balsa which will rot if water gets into it.

One big thing to watch for is rotted decks. The teak decks (an extra $$ option) took a perfectly good FG deck and punched hundreds of holes in it with screws. A good surveyer will bring a little hammer and tap all over to check for this. It's not a deal killer, because the deck is never going to fall out from under you, but if you want to fix it it's major work and $$.

You will probably find blistering on the hull. It's mostly cosmetic, but mine was so bad I peeled the hull down to the first layer of mat, dried with the HotVac system, then relaminated with new FG. $25,000 later I have a perfect hull, and not a single blister since 2003.

Feel free to ask away with any questions you have.
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Old 09-11-2010, 11:20 AM   #8
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RE: Buying a used trawler

Steve,

Thanks for your input. I just recently turned 79 and was looking for a little adventure before I buy the farm. Right now I am just wasting away and I know another boat will keep me BUSY.

Jim
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Old 09-11-2010, 11:35 AM   #9
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RE: Buying a used trawler

Keith,

I only took a quick look at this boat. I have received a couple of oil analysis kits and intent to go back for another more through look and take an oil sample after I ger the engine up to proper temperature and then run it at WOT for a minute or so.

On the stbd, side just aft of the pilothouse door I could see a dozen blisters, from dime size to quarter size. They were not ruptured but I will feel them for give when I go back.

My thoughts about buying a trawler are to seek out a popular model made by a reputable company, care for it and in a few years it may be possible to sell it without loosing too much of the original investment.

This boat is being offered by a broker but I would much prefer to deal directly with owner who is ready to part with his treasure. I'm not stuck with the Kadey, I also admire the GB36.

Jim
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Old 09-11-2010, 02:47 PM   #10
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RE: Buying a used trawler

Wow Jim,
Two thumbs up for your can do attitude! Welcome aboard! I think you have the right idea with a KK, GB or well known brand for investment. We love our vessel and she is very well made but I get a little tired explaining who Berl Present and Chung Hwa shipyards are. The next time someone asks me if mine is a Chris Craft I may just smile... And say Yes Sir!!
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Old 09-11-2010, 05:21 PM   #11
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RE: Buying a used trawler

Quote:
Dimview wrote:

Steve,

Thanks for your input. I just recently turned 79 and was looking for a little adventure before I buy the farm. Right now I am just wasting away and I know another boat will keep me BUSY.

Jim
wow ! MY HERO !!!!
Good for you, as long as you can do it safely !

4 years ago I bought a 1982 Defever with a Lehman 120 engine that had 6000 hours on it. I never flinched. But I did consult with Bob and Brian Smith at American Diesel Corp first. You might consider talking with them to get yourself some confidence.....and they might even know the boat.
R.

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Old 09-12-2010, 01:35 PM   #12
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RE: Buying a used trawler

WOW, If the Lehman 120 will go 12,000 to maybe 20,000 hours if treated right, my American Diesel 139 with 450 hrs. hasn't even pecked its way out of the shell yet......Woo Hoo!!!!!!
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Old 09-12-2010, 10:09 PM   #13
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RE: Buying a used trawler

RD
Unfortunately, the average of 15 hrs/year will not have been as gentle on your CHB as the 200+ hrs per yr on Ralph's DeF. What kills diesel engines is cold starts. So the guy that religeously goes down to the marina and starts his diesel every Sunday and runs it at idle at the dock for an hour will need a rebuild long before the guy that stays away over the winter, then puts 200 hrs on it over the summer. Every time you start it but don't heat it up, more of that condensation gets into the oil, less lube oil actually adheres to the cylinder walls, more scraping between rings and cyl walls, yecchh, you get the picture.
In prime power genset applications, running continuously, the rebuild schedule is 30,000 hrs. Only a few starts, and mostly hot, following maintenance.
Lehmans are simple, robust, old fashioned engines. They are reported to go 10000 hrs before a rebuild. Yours will too, unless you, or a PO tried to kill it. Kindness is one form of killer, as noted above.
These remarks apply equally to other brand names.
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Old 09-13-2010, 02:31 PM   #14
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RE:'85 Kadey 42 with Teak Decks

Keith,

SinceI know you have a Kadey I hope you won't mind if I pick your brain for information.

I have found 3 or 4* Kadey 42's here on the east coast that I could look at. One is an '85 with Teak Decks. Do you have any opinion on this option. I know they can look really salty and the can cause leaks also.

Jim
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:39 PM   #15
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RE: Buying a used trawler

Around those years, if you can find one without teak decks you would be much better off. All those screw holes are at best a maintenance issue (the plugs pop out after the deck wears down and need replacement) and at worst the deck rots out underneath. Not a complete show stopper, but I would prefer one without all those holes poked into the fiberglass.
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