Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-20-2015, 04:57 PM   #61
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,152
Geeessssss

A thread about oil is like a thread about anchors and chain v rope....

I use Valvoline 10-40 and all NAPA filters.........About $100 per engine and I change it every March.
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 08:57 PM   #62
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
So are you suggesting trying to find an oil blend that matches those made in the 50's? Those blends are simply not made any more.
The operator's manual for our FL120s, which were assembled in 1973, states that for our climate the correct oil to use is 30 wt. There are plenty of choices for 30 wt motor oil these days. We use Chevron Delo 400 but there are other brands as well.

What our manual doesn't recommend are multi-viscosity oils. (Later manuals for the same engine apparently do, however, if forum posts to that effect are to be believed). And of course the manual doesn't say anything about synthetics since they hadn't been developed for mass market use (or at all) in 1973.

My point is not that running multi-vis or synthetic or synthetic blend will damage the engine. Synthetics can cause non-damaging (I assume) leak issues, but the engine isn't going to sieze up or anything.

My point is that there is no significant advantage to using multi-vis or synthetics in this 1950s engine design. Running the engine on the oil it was designed to run on--- single weight dinosaur/tree fern oil--- will provide all the lubrication the engine needs for the service life of the engine. A service life that will most likely end as a result of a failure that isn't caused by insufficient lubrication.

The first vehicle I ever bought new is a 1973 Land Rover Series III Model 88 which I still have. It has a 2.25 litre gas engine wich is the petrol version of the engine Land Rover initially designed and produced as a diesel. So it has some diesel features on it--- roller followers on the pushrods, for example. Very clever on their part--- a diesel and a petrol engine for different markets, but just one engine assembly line.

Anyway, from day one I lubed this engine with Castrol 20-50 because that's what the [1973] owners manual recommended. I changed the oil and filter every 3,000 miles without fail. When at some 130,000 miles it burned an exhaust valve, we took the opportunity to have the whole engine checked over since we had the head off anyway. The engine specialist who did the job here in the Seattle area said that the inside of the engine-- the cam surfaces, pushrod rollers, crank bearings and conrod bearings--- looked like they had never been run they were so clean and wear-free.

So I am a total believer in using what the engine manufacturer said to use, and if that's unavailable for some reason, the closest thing to it. Sure, there have been all sorts of advances in engine lubricants. It's the only way the engine designers could do what they've done and continue doing.

But straight-weight 30 is still available all over the place in the case of the FL120, and so is dino/tree fern 20-50 in the case of my 1973 Land Rover.

I could use a newer-generation lubricant in both these engines, but why? I would realize no benefit whatsoever in terms of the service I'm getting out of either one of them.

Now going the other way, putting sraight weight 30 dino/fern oil in my wife's new Subaru, would be a very bad idea indeed.
__________________

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2015, 11:41 AM   #63
Senior Member
 
mike66's Avatar
 
City: Warwick, RI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Susan Helena
Vessel Model: Albin40
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 181
This actually has been a good discussion from my point of view because it prompted me to look a little closer at the difference between my farm equipment based cold running lightly loaded boat diesel and my automotive engines. It appears that a monograde such as. Rotella 30 weight is the way to go in my 135 Lehman. A low TBN seems desirable in our cool running engines and these engines were designed to handle a straight weight oil on startup, unlike our modern auto engines I don't think my use of Delvac was harmful but I'm going to switch to Rotella 30 this fall (it seems like centuries away as the bay outside my window is frozen). Thanks again for some good discussion.
mike66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2015, 03:12 PM   #64
Guru
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Country: US
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,409
Mike

I am in exactly the same situation and have made the same decision. My only challenge is to find a good 30 wt oil that's API rated at CH, CI4 or CI4+ BUT NOT CJ4 as the other awakening for me was that the NEW API CJ4 class is not necessarily better than CI4 for older engines & marine applications (vs auto / truck w/ emissions controls)
__________________
Don
MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2015, 07:51 PM   #65
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,714
Bacchus,

OK I'll bite ....

Why do you want CH and CI rated oils.

Delo 400 is probably the most popular oil used in trawler engines on this forum. The Delo 400 SAE 30 I use is rated CF/SL. What's wrong w that?
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2015, 10:33 PM   #66
Guru
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Country: US
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,409
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
Bacchus,

The Delo 400 SAE 30 I use is rated CF/SL. What's wrong w that?
Eric,
Nothing wrong w/ Delo or CF oils - I just thought that CF was obsolete / hard to find... I have used Delo in the past in another boat and liked it at the time - don't recall what rating it was.

I will be looking into Delo as I want a SAE 30 rated between CD - CI (which is what Yanmar now recommends in their newer manuals).

I do intend to avoid CJ-4 rated oil - which is the most common / easiest to find at least as far as I've looked locally.
__________________
Don
MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2015, 11:06 PM   #67
Guru
 
hmason's Avatar
 
City: Westport, CT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Magic
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46 Europa
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,904
We have the often maligned but actually wonderful CAT 3116 engines. The oil selection is easy, CAT specifies a lubricating oil specifically formulated for the 3116/3126 CAT marine engines. It's called SAEO; Special Aplication Engine Oil. It's a straight 30 weight and is changed every 250 hours, which for us is twice a year minimum. We use CAT filters. We now have 3,800 hours on these diesels without a hiccup.

FYI, if you have CAT engines, and are located in south Florida, Pantropic Power in South Florida will on request send a technician to your boat. The tech will do an "engine health" inspection which includes pulling oil and tranny oil samples, and sending you a detailed report on your engine including photos of parts that may need attention, and the oil analysis report. The cost is $0.00. Yes, I did say $zero.

Howard
__________________
Howard
Magic, 1996 Grand Banks Europa
Westport, CT and Stuart, FL
hmason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2015, 09:27 AM   #68
Senior Member
 
City: MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Blue Yonder
Vessel Model: 37
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
Eric,
Nothing wrong w/ Delo or CF oils - I just thought that CF was obsolete / hard to find... I have used Delo in the past in another boat and liked it at the time - don't recall what rating it was.

I will be looking into Delo as I want a SAE 30 rated between CD - CI (which is what Yanmar now recommends in their newer manuals).

I do intend to avoid CJ-4 rated oil - which is the most common / easiest to find at least as far as I've looked locally.
I used Kubota branded motor oil in the genset on my last boat. Kubota makes a straight SAE 30 to CF-2/CF standards that doesn't meet the newer standards.
BlueYonder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2015, 11:05 AM   #69
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,371
It would appear lots of happy campers go by the book. And have Cats, count me as one.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2015, 11:46 AM   #70
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueYonder View Post
I used Kubota branded motor oil in the genset on my last boat. Kubota makes a straight SAE 30 to CF-2/CF standards that doesn't meet the newer standards.
Perhaps I bought that oil in Alaska and it dosn't meet tier ll standards.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2015, 07:36 AM   #71
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,530
"Perhaps I bought that oil in Alaska and it dosn't meet tier ll standards."

ALL oil sold for lubricating should have the standard it was mixed to on the label.

Although it works in other engines CFII oil is the requirement for DD 2 strokes.

Not usually used for 4 strokes.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2015, 09:50 PM   #72
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,714
I was at the boat today and checked. The oil I'm using is rated CF.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2015, 06:48 AM   #73
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,530
Most of the old Ford Econo Power conversions were happy with CD oil , which was most common in that era.

Using a higher rated modern blend simply means there are more additives , much higher detergent, as required to have an engine with EGR , eat its exhaust gas.

Switching "up" in detergent levels may cause new oil leaks .And the oils ability to exist in higher temperatures adds nothing.

The oil the mfg or converter specked when new is all that is required for your engine to "Live Long and Prosper."
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 09:26 PM   #74
Veteran Member
 
Driftless's Avatar
 
City: Taunton, Mass.
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Rise & Shine
Vessel Model: Prairie 29
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 69
Wow - I haven't heard this much craziness about oil in a long, long time.

The Yanmar engines I sell (industrial only, not marine) are approved, indeed recommended for CJ-4. ANY oil bearing the circular logo indicating conformance to API CJ-4 will meet the lubrication and longevity requirements of the OEM.

I can tell you many stories of industrial diesels with 100,000+ operating hours on them, now with CJ-4. We just did a major overhaul on an industrial engine with 105,000 hours and the crankshaft only needed one journal polished, the rest were fine. The cams looked new.

With the current ULS (Ultra Low Sulfur) diesel fuel, the very low TBN oils are perfect. TBN stands for Total Base Number, and is an indication of the amount of reserve alkalinity in the oil - the ability to resist acid buildup (drop in pH) mainly from sulfuric acid condensation from combustion gasses passing through the crankcase. Many of the engines I service operate on high sulfur fuels such as landfill methane, and higher TBN is appropriate for them.

Not so pleasure boat marine engines operating on ULS diesel.

So, my recommendation is: get your CJ-4 oil in any brand you desire in the viscosity recommended by the OEM and go enjoy your boat. The API has taken care of the oil specs in a degree of detail one thousand times more rigorous than any of us could ever imagine.

That's my two cent's worth. YMMV

JS
__________________
John R. Stewart
"Rise 'n Shine" Prairie-29, (formerly) "Driftless" Albin-25, Hull number 737
Dighton, Massachusetts, USA
Driftless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 09:49 PM   #75
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driftless View Post
Wow - I haven't heard this much craziness about oil in a long, long time.

The Yanmar engines I sell (industrial only, not marine) are approved, indeed recommended for CJ-4. ANY oil bearing the circular logo indicating conformance to API CJ-4 will meet the lubrication and longevity requirements of the OEM.

I can tell you many stories of industrial diesels with 100,000+ operating hours on them, now with CJ-4. We just did a major overhaul on an industrial engine with 105,000 hours and the crankshaft only needed one journal polished, the rest were fine. The cams looked new.

With the current ULS (Ultra Low Sulfur) diesel fuel, the very low TBN oils are perfect. TBN stands for Total Base Number, and is an indication of the amount of reserve alkalinity in the oil - the ability to resist acid buildup (drop in pH) mainly from sulfuric acid condensation from combustion gasses passing through the crankcase. Many of the engines I service operate on high sulfur fuels such as landfill methane, and higher TBN is appropriate for them.

Not so pleasure boat marine engines operating on ULS diesel.

So, my recommendation is: get your CJ-4 oil in any brand you desire in the viscosity recommended by the OEM and go enjoy your boat. The API has taken care of the oil specs in a degree of detail one thousand times more rigorous than any of us could ever imagine.

That's my two cent's worth. YMMV

JS

And no, their mileage will not vary.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 09:50 PM   #76
Guru
 
Pgitug's Avatar
 
City: Punta Gorda, fl
Country: Usa
Vessel Name: Escapade
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37 2002
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
There are rating or standards that oils are tested to. Your engine owners manual will list specifications that they require for the oil they want used in there engine. The oil container has the specifications that they meet listed on the front or the back. There are several threads where this has been discussed before. The consensus is that there is none as far as manufacturer. There are several that have very good reputations. Frequency of changing probably has more benefit than which of the better brands. If you want a specific brand, Rotella T is considered one of the better brands.



Filters are a little different. There are several manufacturers that make and then private label there products. As an example, Wix makes a good quality filter, and they private label it for Napa auto parts store. Many people choose Wix as it's a good quality filter, easily sourced at a competitive price. There seems to be a general consensus to avoid Fram filters if you search the archives.



Ted

I second the advise. Rotella is a great Oil for diesels and is readily available everywhere.
Fram filters I have used several years ago but their qualIty is NOT good. Their thread patterns are not consistent. One time the filter will spin on the next time you stop trying to install it for fear of ruining the filter threads on you engine block.
Pgitug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2015, 10:15 AM   #77
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 22
OK here goes. I retired from a major oil company and spent quite a few years in the lubricants division. Those who have said that is not difference in oil brands are spot on. About 80% of the base oils made in the US come from Exxon, Shell, Chevron and BP. Also over 80% of what's in the bottle is base oil, the rest is additive. Those additives come from a small number of chemical companies. WalMart does not manufacturer oil. They have someone else blend base oil from the big guys with additives from the chemical guys and put it in a WalMart bottle. This is not any different than buying "WalMaTussin" rather than Robitussin at the WalMart pharmacy.
So back to the question, there is not much difference in any of the oil brands, particularly if you change it on schedule. I use Rotella and no, I did not work for Shell.
Temptation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2015, 10:38 AM   #78
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Temptation View Post
Those who have said that is not difference in oil brands are spot on. So back to the question, there is not much difference in any of the oil brands, particularly if you change it on schedule. I use Rotella and no, I did not work for Shell.
So any old oil whether recommended for my lawn mower or gas engine in the Model A is suitable for a boat diesel? Throw in a few APIs and CJs and I'd be happier.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2015, 11:29 AM   #79
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,714
I see CJ-4 oil at the store but it's 15W40. The CF oil that I use comes in 30W. Does CJ-4 come in straight weight or CF in multi vis?

Viscosity aside what is the difference between CJ-4 and Cf rated oils?

Also, since we have new sources of expertise onboard what percentage of the additive package is multi viscosity improvers and what is the downside to their use?
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2015, 11:47 AM   #80
Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,888
As I understand it, API no longer tests oils to the obsolete standards. This has created some issues with straight weight oils as they won't meet the modern API standards, and API won't test them to the old standards. So Rotella 30 is stamped CF2 and CF, but nothing higher. A newer engine may require something higher than CF, and on the face of it Rotella 30 does not comply. But apparently it is still ok, it is just not tested to anything higher than CF.

Or something like that. The above cobbled together from random bits of info, so might not be accurate.

Maybe our oil guy knows more.

And Temptation, Welcome!! Having an oil guy here is quite a resource!!
__________________

Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012