Bow Thrusters (Cheaters)

[KJ]

Inquiry* --* How many folks have had bow thrusters installed post purchase?* Aside from the price of the unit itself, how much did it cost to have it installed? Are there any trawler designs/models that are not suitable for bow thrusters?* I know the rule of thumb is to get the biggest one you can, but would a really large (in proportion to hull length) thruster alter the handling characteristics of the boat? Do you feel that you use the thruster less after you become more familiar with handling your boat?*
Would you still install one today?
Do these slacks make my butt look big?

 

[Carey]

KJ wrote:
*

Inquiry* --* How many folks have had bow thrusters installed post purchase?* Aside from the price of the unit itself, how much did it cost to have it installed? Are there any trawler designs/models that are not suitable for bow thrusters?* I know the rule of thumb is to get the biggest one you can, but would a really large (in proportion to hull length) thruster alter the handling characteristics of the boat? Do you feel that you use the thruster less after you become more familiar with handling your boat?*
Would you still install one today?
Do these slacks make my butt look big?

My boat came with a thruster. Could you turn to the left? I think you may be on to something relative to your BUTT.*

In fact, by some standards, it might be considered HUGE!!!

*


-- Edited by Carey on Saturday 11th of December 2010 10:33:53 PM

 

[xfedex]

We put a DPC 10 Wesmar on our 4 month old 42 Krogen. In 1998 $, labor was 4 K. The biggest one you can is a good idea but it should be one tube diameter below the water line. Ours is a 10 inch. I have never thermally cut out from over use .

It has been great. My reasoning is ... its a pleasure boat so make it easy to control. I do practice with out the thruster just incase. It sure makes a single engine easy to back up.

No, your butt looks fine

 

[Marin]

KJ wrote:

*

1. Are there any trawler designs/models that are not suitable for bow thrusters?

2. I know the rule of thumb is to get the biggest one you can, but would a really large (in proportion to hull length) thruster alter the handling characteristics of the boat?

3, Do you feel that you use the thruster less after you become more familiar with handling your boat?


4. Would you still install one today?

5.Do these slacks make my butt look big?

1.* I think you can put a thruster on anything.* Wood boats can present a bit of a challenge but it can be done--- several owners of wood GBs have installed thrusters.* I'm not sure what you'd do in the case of a multi-hull trawler.* I suppose a thruster in one hull only would work just fine.

2. Thrust is what you want and that's not always tied to size.* A powerful hydraulic thruster may be able to generate more thrust than an electric thruster of the same size.* And even a large thruster isn't going to be all that big relative to the size of the hull.* The only way I can see that a thruster would alter the handling charaacteristics of your boat is if you left it on all the time.

3.* We don't have a thruster on our current boat but we did on the single-engine GB we chartered previously.* We used the thruster whenever it made sense to use it.* As previously stated, I believe a boater should be able to maneuver his boat without a thruster so that he won't be up a creek when it quits.* But once non-thruster maneuvering has been mastered, or at least become familiar, I'd say use the thruster whenever it makes sense to use it.* Not much point in paying a bunch of money to install something that's supposed to make it easier for you to maneuver your boat and then not use it because some forum people said you'd be a wuss if you did.* If we had one on our boat--- and a lot of twins do have them--- we'd use it.

My main objection to them is the God-awful racket the electric ones make. They sound like a Cuisinart grinding up rocks.* The noise alone is so embarassing I'd be inclined to avoid turning it on unless I really needed it.* If they sounded really cool, like a turbine whine or someting, that'd be okay.* But the sound is so obnoxious it almost screams "Incompetent twit approaching the dock.* Run away, run away."

4.* I might pay to put one on a single engine boat if we had one.* It would depend on how the boat maneuvered without one, and on my ability to maneuver the boat.* I doubt I'd pay to put one on a twin, but if we bought a twin that had one I wouldn't take it off.

5.* Yes.

*

 

[markpierce]

It's costing me $7500 for the 24-volt thruster for the Carquinez Coot.

 

[markpierce]

The tube of my Coot's bow thruster can be seen at the bottom-center of this photo:

 

[markpierce]

Seems to be several prime*reasons why people don't have/want bow thrusters:

1.* They cost money I don't have or would rather spend on something else.
2.* I manage well enough without one, thank you.
3.* They would make me look like a wuss.

 

[KJ]

Are you coming over from sail, and afraid that you will not be able to handle a trawler?


Yes, I am coming over from sail, and*no, I am not afraid that I will not be able to handle a trawler. *I have ben boating for about 35 yrs and have been fortunate enough to have*had the*oppurtunity to drive a couple of*good size power vessels in that time (just for short jaunts). *I just think that you folks are the best source of knowledge for info in areas that*Iam not familiar with.**I'm just doing my homework before I buy.* I did read the previous thread on bow thrusters, but when I went back to refer to it I couldn't find it.*I'm sure most of*my inquiries have been addressed, but, it*can't hurt to review them.* Maybe we can get some fresh input.

 

[Daddyo]

Marin wrote:

*
KJ wrote:

*

My main objection to them is the God-awful racket the electric ones make. They sound like a Cuisinart grinding up rocks.* The noise alone is so embarassing I'd be inclined to avoid turning it on unless I really needed it.* If they sounded really cool, like a turbine whine or someting, that'd be okay.* But the sound is so obnoxious it almost screams "Incompetent twit approaching the dock.* Run away, run away."





*

*

Marin nailed it here. That is what I think when I hear them especially if the captain is laying on the thing like he fell asleep with his hand on the thruster. What really kills me is when you hear the twit using the thing out in open water in an anchorage. Argh!!

*

 

[Tom.B]

(Keep in mind, Skinny Dippin' in a single screw.)

We have a stern thruster (it was on it when purchased) and no bow thruster. It's a far cheaper option to consider first because it literally is just bolted to the transom with hydraulic lines run up to the engine. No large holes, glassing in tubes, hard-to-reach props and tricky places for bottom paint. But if I replace it, I might do batteries back there. It's a little under-sized for the boat, but it gets the job done.

Am I considering a bow thruster too? Sure, but I can't justify the cost at this stage. I may never justify it either. It's just not worth it... yet. The bow HAS gotten away from us a time or two, but we are learning how to anticipate it. Still. I'll always have a stern thruster in the future.

One thing I am hearing is that there is some sort of shame or embarrassment in using a thruster? WTF is up with that? I use it proudly. It's a viable tool that shows that I am in control of my own vessel. Nobody stands on the dock and snickers at people that use thrusters. If they (or you) do, get out of boating because you are a jerk. There is no ribbon of shame in thruster use. Yes, it is essential to be able to do it without should there be a failure, but if I needed to drive a nail, I'd grab a modern hammer before a rock.

 

[sunchaser]

Geez, two posts on thruster envy, 8+ pages, WHEW.

 

[Doc]

Amen! Tom. I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[magicbus]

GonzoF1 wrote:

Yes, it is essential to be able to do it without should there be a failure, but if I needed to drive a nail, I'd grab a modern hammer before a rock.

Well put.

*

 

[Phil Fill]

Hydraulic is quiet and you can tun them for hours, so nobody knows. The thruster has a variable drive/thrust which is controlled at the pilot house. Our bow draft is not that deep, so the thruster can move the bow, but if the bow had a straight down deep draft that would be hard to push around. **I would think a stern thruster would have a tough time with a 6 ft draft.* Which might be reason bow thrusters are more popular?*

 

[hollywood8118]

GonzoF1 wrote: One thing I am hearing is that there is some sort of shame or embarrassment in using a thruster? WTF is up with that? I use it proudly. It's a viable tool that shows that I am in control of my own vessel. Nobody stands on the dock and snickers at people that use thrusters. If they (or you) do, get out of boating because you are a jerk. There is no ribbon of shame in thruster use. Yes, it is essential to be able to do it without should there be a failure, but if I needed to drive a nail, I'd grab a modern hammer before a rock.

excellent statement.... who gives a rip if I use a thrister or not... I think the thing is that if the landing is good who cares!
The other think that always gets me is the " if it fails" statement.... ok I guess you could suck up a line... or a small child... or in our area an otter.* I did have mine " fail" when I first got the boat.... I didn't give it a few seconds between left and right thrust... snap went the shear pin designed to give vs. thrash the gears if one is a moron ( or sucks up the previously mentioned otter ). I never did that again.* If you are working into a tight place at SLOW speed and need to nudge the bow ( or stern) over for the right angle the thruster works fantastic... or you can stop all momentum... put the helm hard over ... give a shot of prop thrust.. turn helm hard over the other direction... engage transmission again... or push the little thruster joy stick thinghy for 3 seconds and do the same thing.

You could also hang your head out the car window in a rain storm and wipe the windshield with your hand.... or suffer the embarrassment of using the little black knob and turning on the windshield wipers......
If you have it... use it
HOLLYWOOD

*

 

[Delfin]

KJ, I don't think there is any hull form that can't take advantage of thrusters, but there certainly are some that nearly require them for marina maneuvering.* We had a 36' Cape George, 12 ton cutter with an outboard rudder I could turn in its own length with the rudder hard over and forward and reverse only - no thrusters needed.* I had a 28' Albin whose rudder was so small it had to have thrusters at speeds under 5 knots if you expected to turn at all.* I piloted a 150 ton cast iron barge on the Mosel river that had a rudder the size of a barn door that could be maneuvered in and out of locks and beachings that didn't need nor would have benefited appreciably from thrusters.* Delfin has an ample rudder and doesn't need thrusters, but now that I am old and lazy I love them.* They're hydraulic, so they are quiet.* When I bought her, the PO had put the tunnel in for stern thrusters as well, and the combination is the ultimate for close quarter docking in a breeze.

Bottom line for single screw boats, big rudder, thrusters not required, but they sure are nice.

Re: the slacks, big compared to what?

 

[Codger2]

Delfin wrote: Bottom line for single screw boats, big rudder, thrusters not required, but they sure are nice.

Amen, brother!

*

 

[magicbus]

I had wondered how 50-60 foot sailboats were able to maneuver in the marina where my boat is currently stored. Much to my surprise as I watched one being hauled I noticed it had a bow thruster that retracted into the hull completely. As I started looking at some others I saw the same thing.

Dave

 

[Tom.B]

magicbus wrote:

I had wondered how 50-60 foot sailboats were able to maneuver in the marina where my boat is currently stored. Much to my surprise as I watched one being hauled I noticed it had a bow thruster that retracted into the hull completely. As I started looking at some others I saw the same thing.

Dave

Not to mention... Sailboat rudders are HUGE!

*

 

[magicbus]

GonzoF1 wrote:

*
magicbus wrote:

I had wondered how 50-60 foot sailboats were able to maneuver in the marina where my boat is currently stored. Much to my surprise as I watched one being hauled I noticed it had a bow thruster that retracted into the hull completely. As I started looking at some others I saw the same thing.

Dave

Not to mention... Sailboat rudders are HUGE!

*

*

Right, that was alway my experience but I only sailed 36-40 foot boats!

Dave

*

 

[xfedex]

The bolt holding the steering ram to the rudder arm (in the lazarette) dropped out and we had no rudder control. My mate kept the bow into the wind at idle power while I re- bolted the rudder control. Emergency tiller not required this time. So I think of it as a standby rudder as well as making boating a lot more fun.

 

[markpierce]

Delfin wrote:

Bottom line for single screw boats, big rudder, thrusters not required, but they sure are nice.

George Buehler (the Diesel Duck guy)*said this about his Coot design: "Her long full keel protects the prop and rudder. Her rudder is oversized and easily removed."

*

 

[healhustler]

KJ: *I'm not so proud as to admit that a thruster has saved my bacon a few times when I needed that extra response in a sudden gust. *When cruising the connected lakes, canals, and rivers of East Germany (a precious, pristine cruising area of about 375 miles or so), sometimes a gust would hit you when emerging from a lock. *The thrusters helped a lot in any of those narrow-canal, windy situations. *With a full keel, the thruster may not have as much effect, but the design of a full keel also helps keep the boat straight, so you typically need less thruster. *Keel-less shallow drafts like the European canal trawlers were easy to move sideways, but consequently were blown about by any wind. *If you're interested in a trawler, study the design first and get feedback about the handling from the experienced yachtsmen here. *A five to eleven horsepower thruster is no substitute for a skilled boat handler, and it won't prevent a disastrous slip entry in a big wind. *For me, it's just a safety feature that is a last resort when I screw up, or a soft touch when backing up down the fairway. *It's a nice feature, but I wouldn't let it determine my single engine trawler selection. My two cents.

-- Edited by healhustler on Sunday 12th of December 2010 02:39:56 PM

 

[Baker]

Delfin wrote:

KJ, I don't think there is any hull form that can't take advantage of thrusters, but there certainly are some that nearly require them for marina maneuvering.

I do not believe this to be true. *There are boats that cannot use thrusters. *It is boats that don't have enough draft up near the bow. *If the tunnel is too close to the surface of the water, it starts to suck air(cavitate/ventilate). *If you do not have enough hull below the water, you cannot install a thruster. *I will ask you this rhetorical question....have you ever seen a Great Harbour with a single engine???? *I am willing to bet you have not. *Why??? *Because it is one of the hulls that fits my description and the manufacturer knows it and installs twin engines instead. *A single engined GH with no bow thruster would be a disaster...

Anyway, just FYI...

*

 

[Tom.B]

Mike wrote:

Gonzo - I'm looking forward to meeting you in person. On my next visit to Carolina Beach (Spring 2011) I'll be asking Tim for directions to your slip. I'll bring the beer.

Same here... We won't be hard to find. I can assure you of that. Follow the sound of a hydraulic stern thruster.

 

[Daddyo]

Gonzo if your talking about me then go back and read my post again. I'm talking about thruster abuse not use. I think the tone of some of this is a bit over the top and should end now before we become like some of those other forums. I'm sending you a PM.

 

[Tom.B]

Not at all... Just the general contention that it seems like using a thruster at all is the sign that you are somehow not in control of your boat. I'm not calling anyone out. I just don't want anyone to think that it's ok to snicker or look down on the use of thrusters. "you" was directed at any reader of the forum. Sorry if it was misread...

Tom-

PS... Gong to delete your PM before I read it. I don't want it to taint anything.




-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Sunday 12th of December 2010 09:42:57 PM

 

[Delfin]

Well you got me there, Baker.* I guess we'd have to add canoes to the list, although for a Great Harbor with a bow thruster, please see:* http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatMergedDetails.jsp?boat_id=2184424&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=75886&url=

 

[Woodsong]

This debate is almost as heated as my Navigation Lights thread!

I've never had a boat with a thruster but then again, I've always had twin screw boats. Now that we have our single screw Monk I'd love to have a thruster. Like the hammer and nail reference previously, it's a tool that's available. I don't need it for day to day use and have never had a problem docking or manuvering my boat or getting it to go where I want in the few months we've owned her but really...it would be nice to have. I picture going into a transient slip in a new marina, high winds, maybe a fun current, big expensive boats poking out into the fairway, throw in some rocks and shallow water and maybe even a big crowd watching for some icing on the cake...I'd be wanting a thruster to help. Luckily i am ok with docking out boat bow first. If I had to dock stern to I am fairly certain I'd need a thruster to effectively and repeatedly accomplish it. Who knows...maybe by the end of this summer I'll feel different. For now we're holding off and not getting one but it's on my list of possible upgrades, assuming we have any money left after our other upgrades!

I actually found a very inexpensive bow "thruster" online just this week. Think I should order one for our trawler? I need to see if they have a shaft extension kit though!!
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Boat...w-mount/_/N-1100545/Ns-CATEGORY_SEQ_104233680

-- Edited by Woodsong on Sunday 12th of December 2010 10:13:49 PM

 

[Carey]

GonzoF1 wrote:

Not at all... Just the general contention that it seems like using a thruster at all is the sign that you are somehow not in control of your boat. I'm not calling anyone out. I just don't want anyone to think that it's ok to snicker or look down on the use of thrusters. "you" was directed at any reader of the forum. Sorry if it was misread...

Tom-

PS... Gong to delete your PM before I read it. I don't want it to taint anything.


-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Sunday 12th of December 2010 09:42:57 PM

As for me, I hope that none of you misunderstood my position on BOW thrusters. I think they are a wonderful thing, and you would be hard pressed to pry my thruster controls from my dying hands (or something like that). I would like however to re-state my belief that too many newbies, with too many dollars to spend, run out and buy a small yacht, and get no instruction as to how to use what they bought. Bow thrusters are not, IMHO (in my humble opinion) intended for anything but finessing the final movements of the boat toward it's destination. Particularly in the thirty five to forty foot range, I have seen way too many boats relying primarily on the thruster, and making (how did Marin say that) the Cuisinart crunching ice/rocks, or whatever it was sound. Very well said I might add. That's how mine sounds. I hate it. Can we just drive the boat into the slip until there is nothing else in the toolbox but the Cuisinart, and then just give it one last burst??? That's all I ask for!!! I know, I am totally anal about some (a lot) of things, and this is one of them. Sorry!Again, I love my thruster, and even yours, if it's used as it was meant to be. Let's learn how to utilize the primary features of our boats before we abuse the secondary ones.

*