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Old 12-07-2010, 10:45 PM   #21
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RE: Bow Thruster

Quote:
Baker wrote:Regardless of necessity.... 3 minutes on a small recreational boat should be more than adequate.
John, I will side with you on this,
the bow thruster on Volunteer was installed by the P.O. ... and it was undersized for the task. It was a 24v unit... but still not enough power in a big beam wind.... but still ... in 8 years of ownership I never used the thruster for 3 minutes in a hour ( I believe that was the rating limit ). I spun all 60,000 lbs 180 degrees on more than a couple occasions and used the thruster to even bring the boat into the marina and back into my slip after a steering failure.
If you need to use a thruster more than 3 minutes ( total run time ) you are doing something wrong. In a perfect world my boat would of had a hydraulic unit... but it was not worth changing it
HOLLYWOOD

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Old 12-07-2010, 10:56 PM   #22
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RE: Bow Thruster

Quote:
Gulf Comanche wrote:

This Battle of Midway was, by most accounts, the beginning of the end of the Japanese Navy's control of the Pacific Ocean.
Makes a person sort of wonder it the Japanese could have done better if they had the addition of bow thrusters.

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Old 12-07-2010, 11:09 PM   #23
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RE: Bow Thruster

Quote:
Carey wrote:

*
john You are so right. I would even go so far as to say that if one buys a boat
with a thruster, they should forget it's there for the first year or two. One thing I
see more and more these days is people coming into a side tie situation and
positioning themselves parallel to, but far away from the dock, and then using
the thruster and a combination back and fill to get to the dock. It's absolutely
tortuous to watch.


Carey,
I am going to call B.S. on this....So what is wrong with bringing a heavy displacement boat next to the dock and walking the stern with prop walk and counteraction with a thruster?? is this not what is was designed for??* I guess one could bring a twin screw boat to the dock and only use one engine ... would that make one a better skipper or is it just showing off?. Volunteer with her 6' draft and full keel and 60,000 lbs. is a hand full in tight spaces... the thruster is worth at least one additional crew... and it doesn't complain!.** I personally enjoyed "parallel parking" between boats when I only had 5' or so of maneuvering room off the bow and stern and getting her next to the dock and tied off while piloting solo... I would never of attempted the same without a thruster... can I line the boat up next to the dock... you bet... I would do that too... with the Admiral handling the lines on the dock. But it always pissed her off... she figured I was just showing off... and would raz me for NOT using the bow thruster!.** I have also found that most of the time people that make the " they should go for a couple years without using the thruster to learn how to drive the boat " ..statement don't have a bow thruster!
what next.... don't turn on the chartplotter and gps and get out the paper charts and dividers??
HOLLYWOOD

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Old 12-07-2010, 11:26 PM   #24
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RE: Bow Thruster

Quote:
Gulf Comanche wrote:

Mark:
I thought you were wrong about Midway so I looked it up. You are correct sir, and ...
The aircraft carrier (museum) Midway:



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Old 12-07-2010, 11:34 PM   #25
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Bow Thruster

Quote:
hollywood8118 wrote:

....So what is wrong with bringing a heavy displacement boat next to the dock and walking the stern with prop walk and counteraction with a thruster?? is this not what is was designed for??* I guess one could bring a twin screw boat to the dock and only use one engine ...
I'm with you Hollywood.* And I don't want to hear/read twin-propeller owners disrespecting single-propeller guys*who opt to have a thruster.* And for those single-propeller, sans-thruster*fellows, don't be uppity.* Try berthing a sailboat without the engine where you usually only have one try.

*


-- Edited by markpierce on Wednesday 8th of December 2010 12:36:26 AM
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Old 12-08-2010, 09:51 AM   #26
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RE: Bow Thruster

Quote:
hollywood8118 wrote:

*
Carey wrote:

*
john You are so right. I would even go so far as to say that if one buys a boat
with a thruster, they should forget it's there for the first year or two. One thing I
see more and more these days is people coming into a side tie situation and
positioning themselves parallel to, but far away from the dock, and then using
the thruster and a combination back and fill to get to the dock. It's absolutely
tortuous to watch.


Carey,
I am going to call B.S. on this....So what is wrong with bringing a heavy displacement boat next to the dock and walking the stern with prop walk and counteraction with a thruster?? is this not what is was designed for??* I guess one could bring a twin screw boat to the dock and only use one engine ... would that make one a better skipper or is it just showing off?. Volunteer with her 6' draft and full keel and 60,000 lbs. is a hand full in tight spaces... the thruster is worth at least one additional crew... and it doesn't complain!.** I personally enjoyed "parallel parking" between boats when I only had 5' or so of maneuvering room off the bow and stern and getting her next to the dock and tied off while piloting solo... I would never of attempted the same without a thruster... can I line the boat up next to the dock... you bet... I would do that too... with the Admiral handling the lines on the dock. But it always pissed her off... she figured I was just showing off... and would raz me for NOT using the bow thruster!.** I have also found that most of the time people that make the " they should go for a couple years without using the thruster to learn how to drive the boat " ..statement don't have a bow thruster!
what next.... don't turn on the chartplotter and gps and get out the paper charts and dividers??
HOLLYWOOD

*

Hollywood

I stand corrected. I was speaking of boats closer to my size. Let's say up to forty feet. The parallel parking actually eludes me with any size boat, as I don't see why one would not nose your bow in as close to the dock as you can before beginning the back/fill/thrust. With a keel and a good sized rudder, the whole process can be done without thruster, so why begin thrusting fifteen feet away from the dock?


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Old 12-08-2010, 10:43 AM   #27
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Bow Thruster

Yep....that is my technique...hang the bow over the dock and hit reverse and the prop walk bring it around...and a little forward thrust to keep the momentum going and then a bump of the thruster to snug it in. *Mainship is not known for overbuilding or overpowering anything....but the thruster in this thing is surprisingly powerful for a boat of this size....it will take the feet out from under someone standing on the bow....maybe they had their target market in mind...

-- Edited by Baker on Wednesday 8th of December 2010 11:44:26 AM
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:25 PM   #28
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Bow Thruster

We have a hydraulic bow thruster which we can run for hours as the hydraulics are design to be a get home also. **Our is more of the jet drive like some of the bigger ferries/ships as it was made by Omnithrust, *http://www.omnithruster.com/* and it also has a forward thrust to be used as a get home.* However, I do wish it had more thrust.* The weak link is being powered by the gen set which operates the thruster at 50%.* If when we have to replace the gen set it will be based on HP not KW.*
*

*
I can turn the boat 360 degrees with the thruster, but in 20+ knot winds it tough.* Then I have to use the stern prop thrust and the prop walk.* But we have a 6 ft draft, 40 tons and a high air draft.*I have kept it running for over an hour holding us in place waiting for the locks.*I wish we had a stern thruster also.

-- Edited by Phil Fill on Wednesday 8th of December 2010 10:20:48 PM
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:16 PM   #29
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RE: Bow Thruster

On my 48 footer with twins, *the newly added thruster is a plus. As others have noted, I too can now walk the boat sideways with little/no space forward or aft needed. Maximum time "on" this year was about 5 - 10 seconds per shot, where does 3 minutes come from? You should be on* your second martini after 3 minutes!!
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:07 PM   #30
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RE: Bow Thruster

And I think I can see the USS Ronald Reagan off of the bow of the Midway....
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:25 PM   #31
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RE: Bow Thruster

Quote:
hollywood8118 wrote:

I have also found that most of the time people that make the " they should go for a couple years without using the thruster to learn how to drive the boat " ..statement don't have a bow thruster!

*
*FWIW, Carey's single-engine lobsterboat has a bow thruster.* So he's speaking from a position of having and using one.

If one has a boat with a thruster, bow, stern, or both, I believe they should be used if they make life easier.* However..... I believe the boater should have experience maneuvering without them because one day the things will fail when you need them the most.

Relying on a thruster from day one of acquiring a boat could be problematic down the road because the thruster makes things so easy that it's hard to deliberately not use it.* So one keeps saying "I'll learn to handle the boat without thrusters next week," and in the end, they "learn" how to handle the boat without thrusters when they quit.* Which can result in a big bill.

Our '73 boat, a twin, has no thruster.* There have been*a few times when I'd have been glad to have one but so far we've managed to get ourselves into and out of the places we've wanted to get into and out of with props and rudders alone.* But if the boat had a thruster--- a bow thruster,*I don't see much value in a stern thruster unless the rudders fall off--- we'd use it.* Probably simply to speed up a docking or undocking more than a way to actually get on or off the dock.* Thrusters are a great alternative to patience
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Old 12-08-2010, 08:40 PM   #32
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Bow Thruster

Quote:
hollywood8118 wrote:

*
Carey wrote:

*
john You are so right. I would even go so far as to say that if one buys a boat
with a thruster, they should forget it's there for the first year or two. One thing I
see more and more these days is people coming into a side tie situation and
positioning themselves parallel to, but far away from the dock, and then using
the thruster and a combination back and fill to get to the dock. It's absolutely
tortuous to watch.

Quote:
Hollywood said:
I have also found that most of the time people that make the " they should go for a couple years without using the thruster to learn how to drive the boat " ..statement don't have a bow thruster!
what next.... don't turn on the chartplotter and gps and get out the paper charts and dividers??
HOLLYWOODHollywoodAs Marin stated, I do have a bow thruster, and I do, on rare occasion use it, because I have it, and it would be rediculous to ignore it when appropriate use is at hand. However, I don't, and won't use it to replace my rudder, keel and prop walk, which actually do a better job. I love my thruster when I have arrived, and stopped all motion other that the bow sneaking away due to a little fender bounce off the dock. I love my thruster when I leave my slip, as I can back up and at the same time thrust the bow with two to three ten second shots, thereby removing the need to back and fill several times. IMHO, that is all the thruster was intended for, and all I will use it for.*

PS-I stand by my philosophy that you should know how to run a boat without use of bow or stern thrusters, just in case the thruster should fail. Besides, it's more fun to run a boat like early boaters did. But, I won't go so far as to give up radar, chart plotter, vhf radio, stereo, etc., because after all, I already own them, and they do have their place.



-- Edited by Carey on Wednesday 8th of December 2010 09:44:56 PM
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Old 12-08-2010, 09:25 PM   #33
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RE: Bow Thruster

Quote:
Marin wrote:If one has a boat with a thruster, bow, stern, or both, I believe they should be used if they make life easier.* However..... I believe the boater should have experience maneuvering without them because one day the things will fail when you need them the most.
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Sage advise!

I once had a 1936 Ford. Mechanical brakes (None of those damn ABS braking systems for this guy)...It didn't have power steering as that was for sissies. No power windows, A/C, no leather interior, crappy radio, etc. I learned to drive the right way in case some of those newfangled systems would fail some day.
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:17 PM   #34
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RE: Bow Thruster

I scheduled a haul-out at The Landings for April 1st. We have a glass guy all lined up to install the tunnel and will have an ABYC certified sparky help with the hook-up--things should go well.
For you guys I see from Bellingham, WA, you will be able to breath a bit easier if you see the "Invictus" pulling in beside you in a tight berth. You'll be able to say-"thank God that old geezer has a thruster"

On an unrelated note, I want to compliment Cary on his boat picture. They are all pretty nice, but the contrast on the "Happy Destiny" really makes it stand out. Looks like you're leaving Blaine Harbor.

Thanks to all you guys--I didn't expect the overwhelming response to my question. This is really a great source of information.
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:41 PM   #35
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RE: Bow Thruster

Quote:
As Marin stated, I do have a bow thruster, and I do, on rare occasion use it, because I have it, and it would be rediculous to ignore it when appropriate use is at hand. However, I don't, and won't use it to replace my rudder, keel and prop walk, which actually do a better job. I love my thruster when I have arrived, and stopped all motion other that the bow sneaking away due to a little fender bounce off the dock. I love my thruster when I leave my slip, as I can back up and at the same time thrust the bow with two to three ten second shots, thereby removing the need to back and fill several times. IMHO, that is all the thruster was intended for, and all I will use it for.*

PS-I stand by my philosophy that you should know how to run a boat without use of bow or stern thrusters, just in case the thruster should fail. Besides, it's more fun to run a boat like early boaters did. But, I won't go so far as to give up radar, chart plotter, vhf radio, stereo, etc., because after all, I already own them, and they do have their place.

-- Edited by Carey on Wednesday 8th of December 2010 09:44:56 PM
Sure I will by the argument that we all should become accustomed to the operation of our boats is case of a system failure... as I stated is a previous post I brought my boat in from the San Juan's once with a complete rudder failure with only using the bow thruster... not a easy task in a big,* heavy , full displacement boat... boy was I glad there was no wind. That being said I had never practiced it before... just the standard use of the thruster in normal docking... but I had a feeling it would work. It's a lot like flying.. practice landing using no flaps* just in case... but I don't want to do it that way every time, after all we do* have flaps.. mighht as well use them.* We have a LOT of gear on our boats that we don't need to operate them.. gps, thrusters, autopilot, refrigeration, radar,etc., but they all are there to make it safer.. and easier to enjoy our boats. I for one like watching a competent skipper use all the tools at hand to squeeze a boat safety into it's berth..
HOLLYWOOD

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Old 12-09-2010, 12:37 PM   #36
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RE: Bow Thruster

Quote:
hollywood8118 wrote:I for one like watching a competent skipper use all the tools at hand to squeeze a boat safety into it's berth..
HOLLYWOOD
I understand your point, and I know you'll understand my perspective of preferring to watch a competent skipper slide in skillfully with the minimum amount of technology. Just a little too old school I guess.

I must add, that I am terribly jealous of you guys with hydraulic thrusters. My electric model is rated at only 45 seconds of thrust at a time. Personally, my fear of burning it up limits me to a maximum thirty seconds. It would definitely be nice to be able to steer with the thruster.
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Old 12-09-2010, 05:40 PM   #37
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RE: Bow Thruster

Our shrimp boat fleets down here are 80-100ft, single engined and no bow thruster.....
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Old 12-09-2010, 05:49 PM   #38
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RE: Bow Thruster

Quote:
Baker wrote:

Our shrimp boat fleets down here are 80-100ft, single engined and no bow thruster.....
Thereby utilizing the KISS principal. We also have scores of fishing boats up here in the northland that do fine without. It's all about using what you've got.*

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Old 12-09-2010, 07:34 PM   #39
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RE: Bow Thruster

Quote:
geezer wrote:

On an unrelated note, I want to compliment Cary on his boat picture. They are all pretty nice, but the contrast on the "Happy Destiny" really makes it stand out. Looks like you're leaving Blaine Harbor.

I took that photo from our boat when we were both coming back from Sucia.* We were at the top of Hale Passage heading south.* Lummi Island was still in shadow from fog and cloud but the sun got under it to hit our boats.* I took a few more a few minutes later and by then the Lummi shore was lit up, too.

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Old 12-09-2010, 08:40 PM   #40
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RE: Bow Thruster

Quote:
Marin wrote:

*
geezer wrote:

On an unrelated note, I want to compliment Cary on his boat picture. They are all pretty nice, but the contrast on the "Happy Destiny" really makes it stand out. Looks like you're leaving Blaine Harbor.
I took that photo from our boat when we were both coming back from Sucia.* We were at the top of Hale Passage heading south.* Lummi Island was still in shadow from fog and cloud but the sun got under it to hit our boats.* I took a few more a few minutes later and by then the Lummi shore was lit up, too.Geezer and MarinJust so you know, Marin does indeed get credit for the photo, but I get credit for the good sense to use it as my avatar.

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