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Old 05-18-2016, 12:48 PM   #21
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Neither can you fully drain an automatic transmission as the turbine can not be drained. Typically only about half can be changed any one time. But this is sufficient to freshen the oil, as long as you maintain a schedule of fluid changes, which can be quite a long period of time on a road vehicle.
Heat really kills the seals, reducing the heat doubles the life, something about every so many degrees you can reduce the fluid temperatures.
I completely agree with you. I was simply trying to provide a thorough answer to how much oil was required during an "oil change" on a CR2.

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Old 05-18-2016, 01:00 PM   #22
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Did it yesterday and I pumped out exactly 2 quarts. Changed tran cooler and put in 2 quarts Dexron 3. This was preventative replacement of cooler and fluid looked/smelled good. Thanks for all the replies.
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:02 AM   #23
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TY for the link, put it in my folder. Dextron ATF they recommend for BG Velvet Drive is what my trany expert recommends. He did great job rebuilding port trany 10 yrs ago... had cooling water leak into fluid.

This guy has done my trany on all vehicles for decades. He was GM's national consultant on all their tranies years ago. He says... such as you mention in another post... no need to change Dextron trany fluid unless you notice color change or burnt order. If the trany is in good operational condition and nothing (like water) gets into Dextron fluid then it will last and last.


Art, Yep, to continue, when you read the Borg Warner manual it will reference recommendations in line with Allison C3 and or Cat O-2 which under 'Heavy Use' recommends mult-grade motor oil 5-20 or 10-30 one of the two.
In my area of commercial boat application, motor oil for BW gear is not uncommon.
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:21 AM   #24
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My Borg Warner owners manual calls for 30 weight oil.
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Old 05-19-2016, 07:41 AM   #25
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Art, Yep, to continue, when you read the Borg Warner manual it will reference recommendations in line with Allison C3 and or Cat O-2 which under 'Heavy Use' recommends mult-grade motor oil 5-20 or 10-30 one of the two.

In my area of commercial boat application, motor oil for BW gear is not uncommon.

Al-
Understood that motor oil is recommended for heavy conditions. What I don't understand is why two such different fluids work well under different conditions in same trany?? Next time I'm at my trany guy I'll ask.

Anyone here know why?
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Old 05-19-2016, 09:05 AM   #26
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Mine discusses RPMs...over a certain amount and motor oil foams where tranny fluid doesnt.
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Old 05-19-2016, 10:51 AM   #27
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Mine discusses RPMs...over a certain amount and motor oil foams where tranny fluid doesnt.
That is my understanding also.
And BTW I am running 5-30 synthetic blend in my BW 71 series.
This is after a discussion with my local BW distributor while I was rebuilding it 9 years ago.
It seems happy
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Old 05-19-2016, 11:18 AM   #28
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jlenord,
Does synthetic have less foaming tendencies?
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:20 PM   #29
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One concept that has been discussed locally, is ATF is dyed. A transmission leak then would puke red oil and identified in the bilge upon normal visual inspection. One has to assume that the bilge is clean enough to reflect the dye! {Mine is}

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Old 05-19-2016, 12:40 PM   #30
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jlenord,
Does synthetic have less foaming tendencies?
I don't know, but it has better lubrication qualities than ATF.
I know that as an engineer I worked at a bearing company (but I was not a bearing engineer) and the application guys hated when they had to spec a bearing for use in ATF because the expected life was lower. That was my impetus for wanting to switch to "motor oil".
I am running a low enough rpm to use "motor oil" per BW specs. (which I think is 2600 rpm max but I don't feel like looking it up).
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:43 PM   #31
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I don't know, but it has better lubrication qualities than ATF.
I know that as an engineer I worked at a bearing company (but I was not a bearing engineer) and the application guys hated when they had to spec a bearing for use in ATF because the expected life was lower. That was my impetus for wanting to switch to "motor oil".
I am running a low enough rpm to use "motor oil" per BW specs. (which I think is 2600 rpm max but I don't feel like looking it up).
I'm sure motor oil is better for bearings, but Velvet Drives almost never fail due to bearing problems.

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Old 05-19-2016, 03:56 PM   #32
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HaHa in this case I folowed my trans rebuilders recomendation. I assumed the gears and clutches needed the anti-foaming qualities. Forty HP engine on a trans made for 200hp engines is not going to be stressing the trans. But because of my low power input I have a 1/3rd size oil pump gear. Less power loss. I run over 2500rpm less than 1% of the time ... that's my high speed cruise (6.4 knots).
Perhaps ATF is better for the seals. That's the only problem I expect from the BW.

It's most likely like the 15W-40 v/s SW engine oil. May be several hundred years before anybody notices a difference.
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Old 05-19-2016, 10:16 PM   #33
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Anyone ever try 50/50 (or some other % mix) ATF/engine oil... in a BW Velvet drive tran?


For older motors it is good to add one court ATF to crankcase oil for ungumming piston oil rings
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Old 05-19-2016, 10:19 PM   #34
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Ugg. I would never do that.
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Old 05-19-2016, 10:24 PM   #35
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I have Dexron 3 n mine.
How about using Dexron 6?

Idea is less frictional bearing drag.
I also notice, when winter is on, the prop shaft is harder to spin by hand due to real cold Dexron 3.

Other thing is Dexron 3 might just disappear from stores.

I have a super slow leak on my starboard side velvet drive. So maybe this winter I will take it down and replace the gasket. So it will be totally empty of oil. Or I may just ignore it. Leak is between the forward case and the gear reduction unit.
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Old 05-19-2016, 10:26 PM   #36
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I did some checking and according to GM, Dexron VI is backward compatible with all Dexron versions. My manual says ATF is preferred, SAE30 is ok to use under 3000 RPM. it specifically states not to use multi viscosity engine oils.

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Old 05-19-2016, 11:02 PM   #37
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I did some checking and according to GM, Dexron VI is backward compatible with all Dexron versions. My manual says ATF is preferred, SAE30 is ok to use under 3000 RPM. it specifically states not to use multi viscosity engine oils.

Ken
Agreed... old school Ford ATF is highly recommended... for BW Velvets.

According to the multi decade expert who for decades has handled all my vehicles' trany needs (services, and rebuilds... including one BW Velvet, due to water leak) Dextron III ATF is fine to use.
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