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Old 07-19-2010, 07:23 AM   #1
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Belt supplier and old numbers

I want to replace my belts on my Perkins 6.354 soon. I don't know how old they are and even the backup belts from the previous owner are suspicious. So I want to replace them too.

Two of the backup belts (for the hydro stern thruster) have a Gates number on them that the auto stores can't cross reference. Same is true for the crank/alternator/pump belt, but it has a Drive Rite belt number (Dyno-something?).

Where should I look for these belts?

Thanks!
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Old 07-19-2010, 07:59 AM   #2
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RE: Belt supplier and old numbers

Had same engines on prior boat. Checking my parts list shows Perkins # 2614B552X, Perkins 4Q92044 and a Napa 12835. You can also get in touch with TransAtlantic Diesel (tadieseldotcom) and with your engine serial # they can provide the correct belt.
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:55 AM   #3
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RE: Belt supplier and old numbers

I'm not sure that after 20+ years that it would use the same belt. If the alternator had been changed or if the pump or crank pulley changed out when the thruster was added, it would surely affect the size needed. Then there are the thruster belts. They aren't stock either.

It's quite a dilemma.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:09 AM   #4
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RE: Belt supplier and old numbers

*
Look in your local phone book under Belts for a industrial/wholesale.* Take the belt with you and they should be able to get the belt.**
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:41 AM   #5
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RE: Belt supplier and old numbers

The auto parts stores used to have a measuring gadget. Just put the belt on, tighten it and it gave them the exact diameter for a replacement. Do they not have that any more? Might try an older or bigger store with a real parts guy.
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Old 07-22-2010, 05:03 AM   #6
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RE: Belt supplier and old numbers

If you don't have the old belt , just a tape measured guess,, or just an old stretched out belt almost every auto parts store will work with you,

Get the belt and one the next size shorter , return the one that doesn't work and get the one that does.They do this every day. And you need a spare anyway.

It is not easy to measure to get the belt size if you have no starting point, Our technique is a long old belt , wrap it as best you can in place and mark the end.

Take it to the store and , plan on going back .
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Old 07-22-2010, 06:02 AM   #7
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Belt supplier and old numbers

Thanks for the tips y'all. I have the old belt and the new backup belts from the PO, so I guess I can get a few and return the others.

I remember the old belt jigs the auto parts stores used to have, but I haven't seen one in a long while. It sure would make life easier.

Currently, the hydraulic thruster belts are notched on the pulley surface and the alternator belt is not. Not like a car's cam belt, more like relief notches. What's the difference?

-- Edited by GonzoF1 on Thursday 22nd of July 2010 06:03:00 AM
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:57 PM   #8
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RE: Belt supplier and old numbers

*UPDATE*

Went to an old reliable Car Quest store here in Raleigh and they had one of the old jigs that was exactly what we needed to find the correct belts.This one actually had a rotating dial that referenced the exact Gates part numbers based on width and length. It made the job pretty effortless. In fact, the old Gates number was still correct for the current belt and they were also able to cross-reference the Dayco number I had to the Gates number.

The crusty old mechanic that was there picking up parts was able to tell me that the notches on the inside surface of the belts allows for better cooling. I thought it allowed for tighter radius turns, but I trusted his opinion was far more experienced than mine.

Glad I can now go into any parts store armed with the correct numbers, including length and width, to get a perfect fit no matter where I am. Well, I don't KNOW it's a perfect fit YET!
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:31 PM   #9
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RE: Belt supplier and old numbers

Quote:
GonzoF1 wrote:

*UPDATE*


The crusty old mechanic that was there picking up parts was able to tell me that the notches on the inside surface of the belts allows for better cooling. I thought it allowed for tighter radius turns, but I trusted his opinion was far more experienced than mine.

Here is the answer from a fan belt manufacturers site:

"There are many types and sizes of commercial industrial V-belts on the market today including A,AX,B and BX size v-belts. A and B size v-belts have a smooth inside edge unlike AX and BX size v-belts that have a cogged or notched inside edge more commonly used in high torque situations."

*
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:27 PM   #10
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RE: Belt supplier and old numbers

I wonder if low-torque matters?
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:56 PM   #11
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RE: Belt supplier and old numbers

"Hi torque" situations would imply driving an alternator pulley as opposed to driving a fan I suppose. Maybe this generates more heat?
An alternator takes a lot of energy to turn, especially right after the engine starts. Through the years I have seen the following process occur:
*Operator starts forklift engine, a belt begins to squeal
* Operator races the engine, soon the squeal goes away. Obviously racing the engine is the cure for a belt squeal.
*PM guy shows up for scheduled maintenance. He is asked to check into the belt squeal. Belt seems tight- but uses his new prybar to pull the cr** out of the alternator and retighten the adjustment. Squeal fixed.
*Customer calls a week later. The water pump bearing is beginning to fail. It is noisy and water is beginning to leak from the weep hole.
*Field tech arrives with new pump. He has also brought a new belt. Both are installed.
*Two months later customer calls me. His forklift has a squealing belt- again and he wants to try a new service provider.
*We show up at the customer location. Find the belt is slightly loose. Also find the alternator pulley is severly worn. A new belt would have to "wear into" the pulley profile- no longer a V. It wears in by slipping on the alternator pully enough to remove material off of the belt to match the profile. During this wear in the belt has also become glazed.
CURE: New belt and new pulley, properly adjusted ( so as not to overload and fail the alternato or water pump bearings. Funny how things work out
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Old 07-24-2010, 05:57 AM   #12
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RE: Belt supplier and old numbers

Steve,

It's funny how no one considers the way (depth and mating) that a belt rides in the V groove or the amount of*(in way of*wrap around) contact surface it has.* The other thing that is ignored is the alignment between the three or four drive or driven units.* Close enough is not really close enough over the long haul.

Back in the 80's one of the biggest problems (not the only*to be*sure) for the GM Diesel*cars was in fact the same thing you lament on the forklift.* They had a big high output alternator on them and once the belt got a little loose they would squeal like hell.* So the answer was dressing or just tighten them up.* Wrong!* Replace them with a good notched belt that fit the grooves on the pulleys properly*and then after about two or three days re-tighten them*using a belt tension gauge usually did the trick.*
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Old 07-24-2010, 07:18 AM   #13
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RE: Belt supplier and old numbers

That is so true JD. And as you said, the wrap is also a huge factor I am told.
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Old 07-27-2010, 04:34 AM   #14
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RE: Belt supplier and old numbers

"Replace them with a good notched belt that fit the grooves on the pulleys properly and then after about two or three days re-tighten them using a belt tension gauge usually did the trick."

This works , but boaters at least can frequently order a dual pulley end when purchasing the bigger alt , and usually a better engine drive pulley to use dual belts.
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Old 07-27-2010, 07:28 AM   #15
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RE: Belt supplier and old numbers

Quote:
FF wrote:

"Replace them with a good notched belt that fit the grooves on the pulleys properly and then after about two or three days re-tighten them using a belt tension gauge usually did the trick."

This works , but boaters at least can frequently order a dual pulley end when purchasing the bigger alt , and usually a better engine drive pulley to use dual belts.
You still need to re-tighten dual*belts after a couple of days in operation.* Let me clarify that.* The belts that are like cam belts on a car or belts with a mechanical tensioner* (as cam belts have) do not need to be re tightened (that's what the tensioner does) but any other belts dual or single will stretch out.*

*
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:57 AM   #16
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RE: Belt supplier and old numbers

Thruster pump is dual belted. *noted*

Thanks.
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