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Old 06-30-2015, 02:23 PM   #21
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Absolutely! All I thought I might do was save someone a buck or two. In my case, I had purchased a proprietary "marine" aluminum cleaner for my boat at some expense, which I wanted to try out. It turns out that under all the marketing stuff it was just nitric acid, so when i ran out, I bought some at Home Depot (masons use it) for about 10% of the "marine" price and it works exactly like the one it replaced.

I'm just offering some of my experiences maintaining my boats, I hope some of it can be useful.
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Old 06-30-2015, 02:35 PM   #22
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I am trying to wrap my head around this about removing the impeller. If you are running this thru the loop, isn't the impeller turning....DRY? Or are we sucking it up and turning the engine off and letting it sit inside the engine?
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Old 06-30-2015, 02:41 PM   #23
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I am trying to wrap my head around this about removing the impeller. If you are running this thru the loop, isn't the impeller turning....DRY? Or are we sucking it up and turning the engine off and letting it sit inside the engine?

He's making a closed circulating loop with the bilge pump, it pushes the B-buster though the hose just after raw water pump then is taking the hose off the mixing elbow and redirecting it to the bucket of B-buster in which the bilge pump is sitting in. So it creates its own closed circulation loop.

At least that's how I interpreted it.
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Old 06-30-2015, 02:44 PM   #24
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He's making a closed circulating loop with the bilge pump, it pushes the B-buster though the hose just after raw water pump then is taking the hose off the mixing elbow and redirecting it to the bucket of B-buster in which the bilge pump is sitting in. So it creates its own closed circulation loop.

At least that's how I interpreted it.
That is how I understood it. But the impeller is till turning...DRY? And over time, the solution in the new closed loop will get hot and not be able to keep the engine cool???
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Old 06-30-2015, 02:47 PM   #25
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That is how I understood it. But the impeller is till turning...DRY? And over time, the solution in the new closed loop will get hot and not be able to keep the engine cool???

He's not running the engine. There's no reason too.
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Old 06-30-2015, 02:48 PM   #26
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I am trying to wrap my head around this about removing the impeller. If you are running this thru the loop, isn't the impeller turning....DRY? Or are we sucking it up and turning the engine off and letting it sit inside the engine?
John,

This whole process uses an external pump (small bilge pump or water puppy) to circulate the solution through the raw water side of the cooling system. Depending upon where you tap in, you can almost clean everything but the scoop/seacock and the exhaust mixing elbow. Removing the impeller and re-attaching the pump cover allows you to make a connection on the seacock side of the strainer or on the strainer side of the raw water pump. This cleans the pump housing and all of the associated piping. I like to reverse the flow half way through the process. Install a new impeller and you are on your way.
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Old 06-30-2015, 02:53 PM   #27
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He's not running the engine. There's no reason too.
BOOM....the light just went on. I tell ya....I ain't that smart!!!!
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Old 06-30-2015, 04:46 PM   #28
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Theirs is a couple videos on YouTube that show the process, with there system of course.
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Old 06-30-2015, 04:47 PM   #29
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BOOM....the light just went on. I tell ya....I ain't that smart!!!!

We all have those days!
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Old 06-30-2015, 06:10 PM   #30
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You could use swimming pool acid which is HCl or muriatic acid. Should be dirt cheap at Home Depot or equivalent. But I would use one of the commercial products formulated for the purpose of removing scale- Barnacle Buster, Rydlme, etc. They have detergents which help remove acid insoluble stuff.


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Old 06-04-2017, 12:38 PM   #31
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Barnacle Buster is 85% phosphoric acid, concentrated to up to 20%. Make your own and save some dosh. Dump it overboard? Sure, fish love acid.

The 90% scallop die-off in the Gulf of Georgia has been attributed to a rise in seawater acidity.
So according to Barnacle buster concentrate instructions you dilute it at 4 gallons water : 1 gallon Barnacle buster to get a ready mix to submerge a heat exchanger to be cleaned.
Now some practical maths: If the BB concentrate is 20% phosphoric acid= 0,2/5= ready solution is 4% phosphoric acid and 96% water and other ingredients? Did I get it right?

Unfortunately Barnacle Buster is not widely available in Europe, hence my need to understand this properly..

Any thoughts?

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Old 06-04-2017, 01:34 PM   #32
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My water pump on the starboard engine is not impossible to get to, but almost. I flushed with Barnacle Buster last year. I didn't want to remove the impellers, so I just used there adapter to suck it in through the strainers and when it was all sucked in, just shut off the engine. Let it sit for about 7 hours and then started the engines. One engine dropped 5 degrees and the other engine dropped 10 degrees. Well worth it I believe. Then did both A/Cs. The sit and soak method may not be as efficient as the recirculating method, but it sure was easier.
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Old 06-04-2017, 02:03 PM   #33
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So according to Barnacle buster concentrate instructions you dilute it at 4 gallons water : 1 gallon Barnacle buster to get a ready mix to submerge a heat exchanger to be cleaned.
Now some practical maths: If the BB concentrate is 20% phosphoric acid= 0,2/5= ready solution is 4% phosphoric acid and 96% water and other ingredients? Did I get it right?

Unfortunately Barnacle Buster is not widely available in Europe, hence my need to understand this properly..

Any thoughts?

-Artto
Those are the correct proportions if you are using the concentrated gallon bottle.
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Old 06-04-2017, 03:31 PM   #34
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. They have detergents which help remove acid insoluble stuff.
That's some detergent if you think its going to be stronger than acid.
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Old 06-04-2017, 05:08 PM   #35
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Those are the correct proportions if you are using the concentrated gallon bottle.
Hi Capt. Bill11
Thank you, yes, I know 4:1 are correct proportions if I use Barnacle Buster concentrate. What I'm trying to figure out is how much such a mix has phosphoric acid as Barnacle Buster is hard to find in Europe. What I'trying to do is if I get to know the proper % of phosphoric acid in the ready BB blend I can find phosphoric acid at DIY store and mix my own blend which is pretty much the same as Barnacle Buster blend.

My practical math outcome is BB ready blend contains about 4% phosphoric acid. The MSDS of BB ready blend says it contains less than 10% of phosphoric acid but does not disclose the exact % for obvious reasons..

As I don't have much experience in this I wonder how critical is the correct percentage of phosphoric acid? Is f.ex. 10% too much and will I risk ruining the heat exchanger?

Your thoughts are highly appreciated..
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Old 06-05-2017, 02:19 PM   #36
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If I can get the same stuff, do the same job, and have money left over for another project, I'll go that route. I don't really care whose logo is on the label.

For $48 a gallon (and free shipping) Amazon has 85% food-grade phosphoric acid. As far as I can tell, that's exactly what Barnacle Buster is. Mix it exactly the same (add 4 parts water to make 5 gallons.)

My impellers are very hard to reach, so I followed the "static flush" process which I found defined here.

Allegedly, phosphoric acid is safe for impellers if used this way. The only down side is I couldn't see what first came out when I started the mains after the flush. There was some visible crud still exiting by the time I got back aft to check.
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Old 06-05-2017, 03:00 PM   #37
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If I can get the same stuff, do the same job, and have money left over for another project, I'll go that route. I don't really care whose logo is on the label.

For $48 a gallon (and free shipping) Amazon has 85% food-grade phosphoric acid. As far as I can tell, that's exactly what Barnacle Buster is. Mix it exactly the same (add 4 parts water to make 5 gallons.)

My impellers are very hard to reach, so I followed the "static flush" process which I found defined here.

Allegedly, phosphoric acid is safe for impellers if used this way. The only down side is I couldn't see what first came out when I started the mains after the flush. There was some visible crud still exiting by the time I got back aft to check.
Hi CaptTom,

Please see post #18:

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Yes, except what you have posted is too concentrated, it is very hazardous at 85% for non-industrial users. BB uses it up to 20%, according to their MDSS, which makes it easier to handle.

I haven't looked recently but I believe it is available at pool supply places at better prices.

BB's MDSS is too large to copy to this site but it's readily available on their website.
If this is the case, then, adding 4 parts of water to one part of 85% of phosphoric acid to make 5 gallons of ready blend ends up with much stronger blend than adding 4 parts of water to one gallon of Barnacle Buster concentrate to make 5 gallons ?

I checked the MSDS of Barnacle Buster concentrate:

"Phosphoric Acid < 50%"

As such it seems BB is considerable less concentrated than the 85% food grade phosphoric acid you refer to?

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Old 06-05-2017, 04:55 PM   #38
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Hi Capt. Bill11
Thank you, yes, I know 4:1 are correct proportions if I use Barnacle Buster concentrate. What I'm trying to figure out is how much such a mix has phosphoric acid as Barnacle Buster is hard to find in Europe. What I'trying to do is if I get to know the proper % of phosphoric acid in the ready BB blend I can find phosphoric acid at DIY store and mix my own blend which is pretty much the same as Barnacle Buster blend.

My practical math outcome is BB ready blend contains about 4% phosphoric acid. The MSDS of BB ready blend says it contains less than 10% of phosphoric acid but does not disclose the exact % for obvious reasons..

As I don't have much experience in this I wonder how critical is the correct percentage of phosphoric acid? Is f.ex. 10% too much and will I risk ruining the heat exchanger?

Your thoughts are highly appreciated..

I see.

In that case mix your phosphoric acid to a 10% solution.
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Old 06-06-2017, 08:26 AM   #39
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I've seen three different MSDS's for BB, with different values listed. One says "trade secret" for the % concentration.

I think some of the confusion comes from the fact that they sell a very similar-looking "ready mix" (diluted) version, so it's not always clear which product is being discussed.

A published research paper lists BB at "40% - 85%."

One MSDS shows a PH of 0.24, one shows 0.9, and another 1.0. Presumably someone with a Chemistry degree and time to figure out which MSDS is which could deduce the concentration from whichever of those numbers is correct.

Now to the question of damaging rubber hoses and impellers. A little Googling shows that phosphoric acid is stored in rubber-lined tanks. Rubber gloves and aprons are recommended for handling.

I'm not a chemist, or an industrial safety expert. Just a guy with an internet connection and some curiosity. I'm open to any better-informed opinions.
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Old 06-06-2017, 09:32 AM   #40
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Just had my main engines' heat exchangers removed and cleaned out. The raw water side showed little buildup after 5 years in PNW waters. The coolant side was far more cruddy.

I am not a believer in indiscriminately dumping phosphoric acid into cooling systems. Dock talk and word of mouth sells BB, but is it the right thing to do - or just expedient? I adhere and prefer to removal, inspection and soaking to deal with observed problems in heat exchangers and after coolers. A good read of Tony Athen's HXer servicing techniques or talking with the pros in the larger engine service facilities may be helpful in this regard.

There are major service industries centered on dealing with industrial scaling issues. One thing for sure, the cationic, anionic or acid/base cleaners that are used require an understanding of the metals and synthetics to be (mis) treated.
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