Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-13-2014, 10:22 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
funangler's Avatar
 
City: Erie PA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Endless Endeavor
Vessel Model: Custom
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 214
Aqua drive is it worth installing

I just replace my transmission with a new model but slightly different size and I'm not happy with the alignment. I'm try to decide if going with aqua drive is worth it. The boat is a 42ft steel hull with a single perkins 6.354. I suspect I will put it in but if anyone has any feed back that would be great.
__________________
Advertisement

funangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 10:53 PM   #2
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,712
Not worth having for that reason.

The AD is the ideal drive. You need to do a very fussy alignment during installation of the thrust bearing but alignments after that are not so fussy. You need to maintain about 2 degrees MISALIGNMENT while using the AD.

Knowing only your #1 post I'd say just buck up and do a good job of alignment.
__________________

__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 10:58 PM   #3
Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,291
Back in the mid 80s I retrofired an aqua drive to a trawler and it really helped with noise and vibration. Just 3 years ago I sold a different boat that came with Aqua drive so I have no way of knowing what the difference would be. My present boat does not have Aqua drive but the motors are very smooth running common rail. I think it comes down to the individual boat and motor combo and how rigged and mounted. If you are feeling a lot of vibration and its not from prop or bent shafts then I would say go for it.
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 11:48 PM   #4
Newbie
 
City: ca
Country: california
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by funangler View Post
I just replace my transmission with a new model but slightly different size and I'm not happy with the alignment. I'm try to decide if going with aqua drive is worth it. The boat is a 42ft steel hull with a single perkins 6.354. I suspect I will put it in but if anyone has any feed back that would be great.
I think I heard that Fleming yachts have them.
I have no experience myself but I would also like to know about them.
Check in your area if you can talk to a fleming owner.
georgepetsas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 06:54 AM   #5
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,525
Aqua drive is great as it reduces one more required skill set.

Some folks can eventually line up an engine to the shaft, , but aging flex mounts eventually pull it out of line.

The hard part of the Aqua Drive is fixing REQUIRED the thrust bearing to the hull properly.

When that is done you are home free.

Yes it should be 2-5deg out of line to properly lube the drive joints.

If the boat was built with wide spaced engine mounts a future engine replacement would be much easier.

When out of service for a long time they can stick, and operate out of line , a blast of throttle is all it takes to un-stick them for another season.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 07:12 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
funangler's Avatar
 
City: Erie PA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Endless Endeavor
Vessel Model: Custom
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 214
The problem I find is my shaft is not supported for 6 ft from a pillow block bearing and it allows for a lot play in the shaft. The boat is steel adding a thrust plate is easy. Moving the engine 2-3 inches out of alignment is the challenge.
funangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 11:33 AM   #7
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,712
For those not familiar w the AD it isolates the engine's vibration from the propeller shaft and stops the propeller thrust from reaching the engine, it's mounts and the thrust bearing in the transmission. It does this w a CV joint like on FWD cars and the inclusion of a thrust bearing aft of the transmission. The CV joint is located between the Tx and the added thrust bearing. The CV joint responds to all the engine's movements. Heaving, thrusting, pitching, radial movement (torsional), sideways movement and yawing.

SO ...

The engine no longer shakes the propeller shaft.
The engine mounts no longer need to have a compromised design to accommodate the thrust from the propeller shaft.
Much softer engine mounts can be used for better vibration isolation.

Other products are on the market now as AD's patent ran out a number of years ago. Python Drive comes to mind. Then there's the Evolution Drive that is quite different from the AD types and I know little about it.


funangler,
There are standards for the length of unsupported shaft considering the diameter that is acceptable. Find out if your length/dia falls within the acceptable guidelines and if not add another shaft bearing preferable not in the middle of the run.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 12:38 PM   #8
Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,887
If there is runout on the unsupported section of the shaft, often that is caused by runout on the coupling flange relative to the shaft center. This "kicks" the shaft off center, and the runout gets worse the further from the coupling, until shaft is supported by a bearing which brings it back to center.

Often this probem shows up when the flanges are separated for some work and put back together in a different orientation. It can be as simple as a thin layer of rust on the flange faces!!! I have cured several of these by simply breaking the flanges and cleaning the mating faces. Clean clean clean!! Put back together and runout is gone.

If you are using a solid coupling, these can be difficult to get a smooth running shaft. They come either too tight or too loose. And flange faces can have just a few thou of runout and that is enough to kick shaft off center down the line.

For that reason I like using split couplings. Better grip on the shaft, too.

One trick (besides cleaning flanges) is to loosen bolts on coupling flange and then roll shaft- If runout is gone, there is a runout problem on the flanges.

If the only problem is shaft wobble, I would try to fix that first before going to AD. AD is a nice rig, but that is a lot of work and expense to fix a problem that may be easily done another way.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 01:39 PM   #9
Guru
 
Aquabelle's Avatar
 
City: sydney
Country: australia
Vessel Name: Aquabelle
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Flushdeck
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
There are standards for the length of unsupported shaft considering the diameter that is acceptable. Find out if your length/dia falls within the acceptable guidelines and if not add another shaft bearing preferable not in the middle of the run.

Manyboats: could you explain why not to add a shaft bearing in the middle of the run please?
Aquabelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 07:05 AM   #10
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,525
Moving the engine 2-3 inches out of alignment is the challenge.

Simply lower the front , or install different height engine mounts, or slip the rear of the engine sideways to have a bit of shaft misalignment.

One delight is far softer mounts that will pass less vibration to the ship can be installed.

The exhaust , fuel lines and the rest of the hookups may have to be modifies for the bigger engine dance.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 07:59 AM   #11
Guru
 
Shoalwaters's Avatar
 
City: Rodney Bay Lagoon
Country: St. Lucia, West Indies
Vessel Name: "Dragon Lady"
Vessel Model: DeFever 41
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquabelle View Post

Manyboats: could you explain why not to add a shaft bearing in the middle of the run please?
Yup! I would like to know what's behind that too.
__________________
Mike
If all else fails, read the instructions
If it ain't broke, don't fix it
Shoalwaters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 09:31 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
funangler's Avatar
 
City: Erie PA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Endless Endeavor
Vessel Model: Custom
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 214
Wish me luck I have ordered an Aqua Drive. I now have to suspend my motor and change my entire mounting system along with everything else that attaches to the motor. With luck I should report back in a few weeks if I'm happy with the drive system.
funangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 09:39 AM   #13
TF Site Team
 
Pack Mule's Avatar
 
City: Paris,TN
Country: USA
Vessel Name: William
Vessel Model: Outer reef 32
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,501
The PO put one in mine and I like it .I talked with him about 6 months ago and he was installing one on the tug that he has now.
Pack Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 10:48 AM   #14
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,712
Shoalwaters and Aquabelle,

Yes. The shaft has a resonant frequency due mostly to it's length. If there is something nearby that's connected in a way that vibration could be transferred to the shaft (like a buzzing engine) the shaft will respond by shaking or buzzing to the same frequency as the exciter (the engine). Not much vib will be transferred unless or until the engine gets to the shaft's resonant frequency. Then the shaft will get really excited and humm w significant noise and vibration. Like a tuning fork. Clamp a tuning fork at it's halfway point and it will vibrate at twice it's normal frequency. Make that tuning fork a rod or bar. Now both ends will vibrate most violently at it's resonant frequency as one end will excite the other and amplify the overall vibration. Now clamp the bar (or prop shaft at a 60/40 length ratio and then neither end can excite the other as they have different resonant frequencies because of their different lengths. I don't know any length ratio that is most beneficial to minimizing vibration but one should probably avoid thirds and quarters and perhaps resonate harmonics could be taken into consideration but just putting the mid supporting bearing a bit off from center may reduce boat vibration considerably. Like 60/40 or 55/45 or thereabouts.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 04:32 PM   #15
Guru
 
Shoalwaters's Avatar
 
City: Rodney Bay Lagoon
Country: St. Lucia, West Indies
Vessel Name: "Dragon Lady"
Vessel Model: DeFever 41
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 681
Thanks Eric, that little piece of info may prevent me from doing the wrong thing one day.
__________________
Mike
If all else fails, read the instructions
If it ain't broke, don't fix it
Shoalwaters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 04:47 PM   #16
Guru
 
Portuguese's Avatar
 
City: Salvador - BA
Country: Brazil
Vessel Name: Rainha Jannota
Vessel Model: Curruira 46
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 662
Send a message via MSN to Portuguese
I did put one of them!

Yeap...I did install one of them

BE CREFULL, IT WILL CONSIDERABLY PUSH YOUR MOTOR FORWARD.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P7220032.JPG
Views:	126
Size:	80.2 KB
ID:	29097   Click image for larger version

Name:	P7220031.JPG
Views:	144
Size:	63.4 KB
ID:	29098   Click image for larger version

Name:	Trs_Montada.JPG
Views:	126
Size:	60.5 KB
ID:	29099   Click image for larger version

Name:	foto[3].jpg
Views:	111
Size:	72.6 KB
ID:	29100  
__________________
Now retired and cruising in calm waters
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rainha_jannota/
Portuguese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 07:31 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
funangler's Avatar
 
City: Erie PA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Endless Endeavor
Vessel Model: Custom
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 214
Wow nice bilge!
funangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 08:12 PM   #18
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,712
Portuguese wrote;
"BE CREFULL, IT WILL CONSIDERABLY PUSH YOUR MOTOR FORWARD."

I don't understand. The AD thrust bearing should keep the shaft from pushing the engine fwd. It will push on the AD thrust bearing and then the thrust will be transferred to the hull by the thrust bearing mounts. Usually the thrust is applied to the transmission and transferred to the hull through the engine mounts and engine beds.

Unless you have an AD or equivalent your engine mounts need to be designed to handle the thrust of several hundred pounds. This design necessity makes most engine mounts less capable to isolate engine vibration. AD makes their own special mounts to be used w the AD only.

Oh Port ... it just dawned on me what you meant. You need to shorten your drive shaft to accommodate the AD. It's part of the installation drill.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 06:57 AM   #19
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,525
Above Yacht pricing , the commercial folks have ball bearing intermediate bearings that are a snap to install or replace..

They are built so the top cap unbolts and 1/2 the bearing set can be lifted out.

A push with a screwdriver and the bottom half of the bearing and race will slide out.

The bearing and races are split , so its all new (except the housing) when reassembled.
Beautiful machining does the trick , not made in China.

If there is working room total time to replace the bearing 3-5 min.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 10:53 PM   #20
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,980
Isn't that similar to what uncoupled suddenly and unexpectedly on Mark's Coot when the boat was fairly new, while he was docking...??
__________________

Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012