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Old 09-27-2010, 11:39 AM   #21
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RE: Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

Looks like a trawler, it does.*
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Old 09-27-2010, 11:47 AM   #22
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Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

The best and the funniest boat we owned was a 28 ft Reinel that could get up and scoot at 20+ and we had on a trailer. Having a trailer able boat has a lot of advantages* (1 you could trailer it to the location which is a lot cheaper and faster, and 2) put it on the trailer and store it which is also cheaper and less hassle.* A go fast trailer able boat in the 20 to 30 ft range has a head with shower, galley with stove/refrigeration and can sleep 4 to 6 people.* We did Desolation Sound that takes most boats a week or two in a long week end, did the San Juan and/or CanadianIsland on weeks ends, towed it the coast did some ocean fishing, down to the Columbia, across the mountains, and many medium size lakes.* It was a great all around fun boat.
*

*
The first boat we bought was a 1970 19 ft run about which we still own and runs, that is tied up to our 58 ft trawler that we use most days.* That boat*is great for lake fishing and playing, plus the sound and even some ocean fishing.* It was a 140 hp merc so it scoots at 35 to 40 mph.* We towed*both with a 28 ft RV around the PNW about a 1,000 mile cruising range.* The furthers we pulled it was LakePowell in Utah, but gas was a lot cheaper.* *
*

*
Anyway trailing a boat has many advantages. If we move off the big ugly boat we will store it on dry land and splash it in the spring which would be cheaper and far less worries.

-- Edited by Phil Fill on Monday 27th of September 2010 11:49:57 AM
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:40 PM   #23
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Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

First off....reference fuel burn and planing boats. Obviously, the more you push the power up, the more fuel you are going to burn. But if you relate it to MPG, there is a spike in the curve as you reach planing speed. IOW, it takes about 2400RPMs for my boat to plane doing 12kts burning about 3gph. At 2800RPMs(my groove) I am doing 15kts at 5gph. So the curve flattens as you realize the benefits of planing(ie speed versus fuel burn). Now if I keep pushing the power up, my speed does not increase much but fuel burn does....just like approaching and going past hull speed on a displacement boat. *


And the term "trawler" comes from styling more than anything else. There are a lot of "trawlers" with planing hulls. All of the Newest generation of Grand Banks "Trawlers" have planing hulls as do some of the new Mainships.

And I would say Grand Banks would be the general default example of "trawler" to the naive. Nordics are a "regional" boat whereas GBs are everywhere.

-- Edited by Baker on Monday 27th of September 2010 12:43:12 PM
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:21 PM   #24
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RE: Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

Quote:
Baker wrote:

... And the term "trawler" comes from styling more than anything else. There are a lot of "trawlers" with planing hulls. ...
And the term "trawler" sounds a lot more nautical than "sedan cruiser."



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Old 09-27-2010, 02:05 PM   #25
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RE: Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

So what I'm hear'in here is that if someone calls it a trawler it becomes one.So if Sea Dory calls their boat a trawler it is one.
I'll be dammmmed .
Mark,
Sounds like maybe youve got somet'in there. Nauticalness may be an element of trawlerism. Claim it and it shall be.
In all seriousness ther'e are elements of trawlerism that cannot be applied unless other basic elements are present and profoundly so * * *....like displacement!
How many here think styling is the most important element of trawlerism?
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:11 PM   #26
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Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

*
...*Nauticalness may be an element of trawlerism. Claim it and it shall be.
In all seriousness ther'e are elements of trawlerism that cannot be applied unless other basic elements are present and profoundly so * * *....like displacement!
How many here think styling is the most important element of trawlerism?
A trawler needn't look like a work boat to be a trawler (although that style appeals to me).* A trawler has a displacement hull and horsepower insufficient to plane.* The combination of the carrying capacity of a displacement hull and*fuel-stinginess*allows great range and accommodation compared to planing-hull boats.* Nevertheless, the term "trawler" is a term loosely used in the boating community.**Judgments are frequently based on first impressions, so I suppose*style*could be*the most*common factor in casually defining a "trawler."*

-- Edited by markpierce on Monday 27th of September 2010 03:12:14 PM
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Old 09-27-2010, 05:02 PM   #27
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Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:... *The bottom line is/was weight, mass, displacement. I don't think you need to be extremely efficient, or have fwd slant windows, or tug boat funnels to be classed as a trawler.
Forward-slant windows?* I resemble that.* Anyway, they also*look great on the islands of aircraft carriers and add airiness to the pilothouse.

Tug-boat funnels?* You got me there too.* Mine is phony but will hold the propane tank.* (It wasn't included in the original George Buehler design.)

Efficiency?* Why not?* That's part of the definition.

*


-- Edited by markpierce on Monday 27th of September 2010 05:03:57 PM
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:34 PM   #28
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RE: Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

Mark,It's a "not your fathers Oldsmobile" thing. Boat windows started out vertical. Then they went slanted back to suggest speed like tail fins on cars. Now they slant fwd so they won't look like last year's, or last generation stuff. "airiness". That's not very objective. If you want a bigger cabin just make it bigger. On real trawlers they may have employed fwd slanted pilothouse windows so they could look down on the midships deck more easily.
Who knows but now it's clearly a fad. Propane tank in a funnel? Stupid. why don't you make a propane tank container or container/deck seat? Efficiency? If you can afford to build that boat you can afford to buy all the fuel if could ever consume. My little 30' trawler has a 600 mi range. I can't imagine going 500 miles and not coming close to a place to get fuel.
I still think what makes a trawler a trawler is MASS. The lack of fads and phony stuff would be a plus. But Mark what you've got going there sure looks like a trawler.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:08 PM   #29
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RE: Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

Well as long as I pick a definition above that fits almost anything I buy will be a trawler!
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:59 PM   #30
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RE: Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

Eric, I am not defining what a trawler is and neither are you....the marketing people are. Right on the side of my Mainship Pilot 30 it says...."Mainship Trawlers"!!!!....now I don't think my boat is a trawler.....but there it is...stamped on my boat!!!
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Old 09-27-2010, 11:46 PM   #31
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RE: Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

John,You're boa * *....cruiser is better looking than a trawler, faster than a trawler and more fun than a trawler. And * ...how could it be a trawler as it's windshield is slanted aft!
I actually thought some would like to hash out a working definition but not much interest.
At least you and I have expressed an opinion of what is the most identifying element. Looks like it could be like anchors. We could scrap about it for 30 posts and all walk off w the same opinions as at the start.
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Old 09-28-2010, 12:01 AM   #32
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RE: Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:


... you want a bigger cabin just make it bigger. ... Who knows but now it's clearly a fad. *Propane tank in a funnel? Stupid. why don't you make a propane tank container or container/deck seat? Efficiency? If you can afford to build that boat you can afford to buy all the fuel if could ever consume. My little 30' trawler has a 600 mi range. I can't imagine going 500 miles and not coming close to a place to get fuel.
I still think what makes a trawler a trawler is MASS. The lack of fads and phony stuff would be a plus. But Mark what you've got going there sure looks like a trawler.
Shouldn't there be an emoticon for "pulling my chain"?

Well, slanted-forward windows are*also*practical because the overhanging roof provides more shade and more room for electronics stuff.* And even if it is "style," I'm not going to refuse a boat merely on that issue.*...*If the pilothouse is made bigger, where do I take the space from?*...* While a propane-tank-in-an-ersatz-smoke-stack is corny, it is a practical place to carry the propane tank rather than taking up more valuable space. ... Efficiency?* I'd rather spend $20 on fuel*for a long day's outing rather than $200.* Cost of ownership is high enough (property tax, maintenance, repairs, haul outs,*fuel, marina charges, insurance, and so on) especially after emptying one's coffers to acquire a boat.* One element favoring frequent use is minimal marginal cost.

And I agree to the extent that proper trawlers are capable of carrying substantial weights with ill-effect because of their displacement hulls.

Anyway, it's good*to know you think*my boat looks the part, and your boat is also*handsome too.



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Old 09-28-2010, 05:24 AM   #33
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RE: Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

The forward slanting windows (also called west coast style) are more than just a fad . The benefits are two fold.
1. to reduce the amount of green water weight directly on the glass (as opposed to aft slant )
2. minimize the suns glare in the pilothouse.
although they may have been adopted to give the appearance of a trawler in some applications, they actually do have some redeeeming qualities.
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Old 09-28-2010, 09:12 AM   #34
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RE: Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

Quote:
Sailor of Fortune wrote:1. to reduce the amount of green water weight directly on the glass (as opposed to aft slant )

2. minimize the suns glare in the pilothouse.
That's been my understanding......

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Old 09-28-2010, 11:25 AM   #35
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RE: Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

Quote:
Sailor of Fortune wrote:

The forward slanting windows (also called west coast style) are more than just a fad . The benefits are two fold.
1. to reduce the amount of green water weight directly on the glass (as opposed to aft slant )
2. minimize the suns glare in the pilothouse.
although they may have been adopted to give the appearance of a trawler in some applications, they actually do have some redeeeming qualities.
Perhaps just as important is the fact that they eliminate the reflected glare from inside the pilot house at night.* Things like instrament lights, radars and anything else with a light.* Seeing at night is hard enough without reflected images on the windshield.........Arctic Traveller

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Old 09-28-2010, 11:27 AM   #36
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RE: Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

Mark,The Willy and I say thank you for the compliment.
The fwd slant WS could even be related to the popular baseball cap. Sometimes they look stupid but usually they look fine to good depending on the boat. On most boats a head sea over the bow would be moving aft mostly and a bit upward. Any sea that is so big it comes mostly from above means your'e (PI) way over your head. Most always (I think) a back slanted windshield would take less pressure * *...less of a hit. S of F * ...I sure agree on the sun glare issue. When making way into the sun I frequently hang clothing over most of my windshield, have photo grey glasses and clip-ou sunglasses too to see where I'm going.
The fwd slant WS is fine/good on most trawlers but I usually think they look or are stupid on the smaller sport boats. And they would not effect my moves on a purchase either. BUT
..... if I was to buy a Nordic Tug 32 (I really do like them) on the first day of ownership I would remove by whatever means necessary anything that resembled a ships funnel. *I despise embellishments and phony stuff. An embellishment is like the fwd end of a wood caprail that terminates like a fiddlehead fern. I think Marin's GB has them. So Mark * *...
do you agree w me to say the most identifying element of the trawler species is mass. Looks like S of F could win this one big time.
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Old 09-28-2010, 12:47 PM   #37
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RE: Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:


So Mark * *...
do you agree w me to say the most identifying element of the trawler species is mass.
OK, OK.* I'll agree that a relatively high mass for a given boat length is a good visual clue.

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Old 09-28-2010, 01:16 PM   #38
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RE: Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

Forward slanting wheelhouse windows have another drawback/benefit.*They reduce the amount of*sun getting into the wheelhouse making it cold in winter and cool in summer.
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Old 09-28-2010, 01:54 PM   #39
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RE: Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

Quote:
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Forward slanting wheelhouse windows have another drawback/benefit.*They reduce the amount of*sun getting into the wheelhouse making it cold in winter and cool in summer.
That's better than hot and hotter.

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Old 09-28-2010, 02:04 PM   #40
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RE: Appropriate engine for Pacific Northwest cruising?

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

...*If you can afford to build that boat you can afford to buy all the fuel if could ever consume.*...*

markpierce wrote:

...I'd rather spend $20 on fuel*for a long day's outing rather than $200.* Cost of ownership is high enough (property tax, maintenance, repairs, haul outs,*fuel, marina charges, insurance, and so on) especially after emptying one's coffers to acquire a boat.* One element favoring frequent use is minimal marginal cost...
I'll have to go with Mark on that one!

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