|
|
12-07-2019, 07:47 AM
|
#1
|
Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,818
|
Antifreeze Analysis
Was helping a friend with his boat yesterday and there was some concern about salt forming around his radiator cap. He replaced the failed heat exchanger a couple of years ago and this may have been residual from that.
I know that oil analysis companies such as Blackstone will do antifreeze analysis. Was wondering if there was a simpler test for salt in antifreeze (other than tasting it )? If there were a test strip that one could moisten from the overflow bottle at each oil change, that would seem like a very good PM test.
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
|
|
|
12-07-2019, 08:20 AM
|
#3
|
Guru
City: Northport
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,046
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver
Was helping a friend with his boat yesterday and there was some concern about salt forming around his radiator cap. He replaced the failed heat exchanger a couple of years ago and this may have been residual from that.
I know that oil analysis companies such as Blackstone will do antifreeze analysis. Was wondering if there was a simpler test for salt in antifreeze (other than tasting it )? If there were a test strip that one could moisten from the overflow bottle at each oil change, that would seem like a very good PM test.
Ted
|
A 50/50 mix of DI water and antifreeze when tested with an ohmmeter will have at least Mohms resistance across half an inch of distance. If you then add a 'pinch' of salt the ohmmeter will drop by 100 fold.
|
|
|
12-07-2019, 09:34 AM
|
#4
|
Valued Technical Contributor
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,775
|
I doubt that what you are seeing is salt. Antifreeze causes the same white crystals to form at any leak.
Is the antifreeze level rising? If not then you don't have a sea water leak.
David
|
|
|
12-07-2019, 01:52 PM
|
#5
|
Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,818
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmarchand
Is the antifreeze level rising? If not then you don't have a sea water leak.
|
I have seen a heat exchanger leak where the pressure in the coolant loop went out through the heat exchanger without opening the radiator cap, and then sucked in salt water from the heat exchanger as the engine cooled down. Liquid level in the overall reservoir never changed.
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
|
|
|
12-07-2019, 01:54 PM
|
#6
|
Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,818
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly
|
Interesting idea. As you match the test strips to a color chart, wonder if the antifreeze would effect the color.
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
|
|
|
12-07-2019, 01:56 PM
|
#7
|
Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,818
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty477
A 50/50 mix of DI water and antifreeze when tested with an ohmmeter will have at least Mohms resistance across half an inch of distance. If you then add a 'pinch' of salt the ohmmeter will drop by 100 fold.
|
Sounds like it's worth a test.
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
|
|
|
12-07-2019, 03:11 PM
|
#8
|
Guru
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,791
|
It’s only good for so many years unless you use a coolant filter so it might just make sense to change it?
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
|
|
|
12-07-2019, 04:56 PM
|
#9
|
Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,818
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xsbank
It’s only good for so many years unless you use a coolant filter so it might just make sense to change it?
|
The intended purpose of the test was to detect early signs of a heat exchanger failing, not the life expectancy of antifreeze.
Tef
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
|
|
|
12-08-2019, 02:43 PM
|
#10
|
Guru
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Shalloway
Vessel Model: Defever 44, twin Perkins
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,259
|
If the antifreeze ratio originally installed is known say 50/50, then any mixing of saltwater would raise the freeze point which would easily be seen with a standard antifreeze tester.
Ken
|
|
|
12-08-2019, 04:42 PM
|
#11
|
Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,818
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by kchace
If the antifreeze ratio originally installed is known say 50/50, then any mixing of saltwater would raise the freeze point which would easily be seen with a standard antifreeze tester.
Ken
|
Now that's a good observation! Im looking for something that would recognize a significantly smaller percentage of contamination.
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
|
|
|
12-08-2019, 06:08 PM
|
#12
|
Guru
City: Quebec
Vessel Name: Bleuvet
Vessel Model: Custom Built
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 4,374
|
Like David wrote are you sure this is salt? Evaporating antifreeze leaves a white powder looking like salt.
L
|
|
|
12-08-2019, 06:21 PM
|
#13
|
Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,818
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou_tribal
Like David wrote are you sure this is salt? Evaporating antifreeze leaves a white powder looking like salt.
L
|
It's not my boat, and I'm not sure to what level of flushing the owner went to after replacing the heat exchanger.
My interest in a test to detect salt is based on my boat's PM protocol. If I could have a simple inexpensive test for sodium, I would likely do it with each engine oil change. As an example, if the test strip RTF linked would work, I would dip the antifreeze overflow bottle with each oil change.
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
|
|
|
12-08-2019, 07:19 PM
|
#14
|
Guru
City: Gulf coast
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,268
|
Sodium is, I think, hard because I don't think it color-changes with any safe chemistry, if any chemistry at all.
Most sodium test kits are based upon conductivity. But, one needs a baseline for that, e.g. water, 50-50 ethylene glycol mix, etc. One would also need to test at about the same temperature, as there might be a big difference between a cold day, a hot day, and after the engine warms up. And, one would also likely need to be able to rule out accumulated contaminants, e.g. metal particles, etc.
Using a conductivity meter seems tough as a practical solution. Although, I guess if one tested frequently at a somewhat stable room temperature -- any fast change could be cause to take notice.
There are some meters that test for sodium ions, often used for food or medical applications. But, they aren't cheap -- I think they are all $300+. Things like this might work:
-- https://www.amazon.com/HORIBA-LAQUAt.../dp/B00BSXGYVC
-- https://www.amazon.com/HORIBA-320068.../dp/B076F94K33
Cheers!
-Greg
|
|
|
12-08-2019, 07:45 PM
|
#15
|
Guru
City: Gulf coast
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,268
|
I just looked at Wikipedia:
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawat...al_composition
And was reminded that NaCl is most of what sea salt is, and that there is actually more chloride in sea water than sodium.
Given this, and that significant levels of chloride shouldn't be in either the RO/DO water used in a coolant mix, or in the coolant, itself -- why not test for chloride?
I can't say that I've tried it, but chloride dip or titrate test kits should be pretty accurate, easy to use, and chemically selective. Maybe something like this:
-- https://www.amazon.com/Hach-2744940-.../dp/B074WW6FSX
(I just ordered a set to see how it works if I take some 50-50 mix and add some salt water).
Cheers!
-Greg
|
|
|
12-08-2019, 09:58 PM
|
#16
|
Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,818
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by gkesden
I just looked at Wikipedia:
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawat...al_composition
And was reminded that NaCl is most of what sea salt is, and that there is actually more chloride in sea water than sodium.
Given this, and that significant levels of chloride shouldn't be in either the RO/DO water used in a coolant mix, or in the coolant, itself -- why not test for chloride?
I can't say that I've tried it, but chloride dip or titrate test kits should be pretty accurate, easy to use, and chemically selective. Maybe something like this:
-- https://www.amazon.com/Hach-2744940-.../dp/B074WW6FSX
(I just ordered a set to see how it works if I take some 50-50 mix and add some salt water).
Cheers!
-Greg
|
I like it! Can't wait to see how well it works.
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
|
|
|
12-09-2019, 12:05 AM
|
#17
|
Guru
City: Gulf coast
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,268
|
In theory, if I did the math right, this test kit should be able to detect about 1.2 tsp of salt water per gallon of coolant and saturate at about 25 tsps per gallon of coolant. There are others that cover other ranges, but this seemed like a good place to start.
|
|
|
12-11-2019, 05:28 PM
|
#18
|
Guru
City: Montgomery
Vessel Name: Choices
Vessel Model: 36 Grand Banks Europa
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 896
|
This is good info. Waiting for the solution.
__________________
36 Grand Banks Europa
Montgomery, TX
Blog: "grandbankschoices"
|
|
|
12-11-2019, 06:52 PM
|
#19
|
Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,540
|
Greetings,
He has the solution he just has to analyze it. (Sorry, I worked with chemists for 35 years).
__________________
RTF
|
|
|
12-16-2019, 04:44 PM
|
#20
|
Guru
City: Deltaville
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,061
|
Agree with earlier comment, if there was enough salt in the coolant to begin forming salt crystals at the cap, I would think the coolant would be significantly diluted. As another said, simply test the coolant concentration.
Also, because the pressure in the closed cooling system is higher, when hot, than the seawater, you'd be expelling coolant when running, and drawing in seawater when cooling off, so definitely diluting the coolant.
For salt, or coolant residue, to form around the cap you'd also need a leak. Is the cap gasket defective?
A photo would help ID this.
(In Shanghai, homeward bound)
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Trawler Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|