Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-15-2011, 10:32 PM   #1
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,153
Is 10 micron enough?

After putting on my CAV spin-on adaptor, I am having trouble finding a 2 micron spin-on filter with M16x1.5 threads. There are lots of 10 micron filters and I have had a 15 micron Luber-Finer LFF3521 on there for the past few months. Problem is its physical size is longer than I would like AND only a 15 micron. So now it's time to change. The cross-reference filters are:

Luber-Finer = LFF3521

Baldwin = BF788

Donaldson = P550440

Fleetguard = FF5052

Fram = P4102A

Wix = 33358

Sierra = 18-7942

I think these are all 10 micron filters. I already have a 30 and 10 micron in the 2-stage filter, so a 2 makes sense, right? Have I screwed myself with the adaptor? Can I just run 30-10-10? Should I do 10-2-10 (as stupid as that sounds) and assume the fuel is already filtered to 30 when it's pumped or polished in my rig?
__________________
Advertisement

Tom.B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2011, 11:41 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Jay N's Avatar
 
City: Edmonds, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: WESTERLY
Vessel Model: 1974 Pacific Trawler 37
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 387
RE: Is 10 micron enough?

There should be a bunch of information on this in the archives, and especially over at boatdiesel.com.* Diesel filtering philosophy can vary a lot with a lot of good arguments, but*I'm not sure it's time to start this one again!
__________________

Jay N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2011, 05:06 AM   #3
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,153
RE: Is 10 micron enough?

After I went to bed, I realized I forgot the engine size. It's a Perkins 6.354.
Tom.B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2011, 08:49 AM   #4
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,496
Is 10 micron enough?

To get the most effective use out of the filters 30 -> 10 -> 2 is generally what is recommended.* I just put a Racor 500 2 micron in front of the OEM filter and after the 30 -> 10 polisher so the rating of the OEM filter isn't as important.


-- Edited by Delfin on Saturday 16th of July 2011 08:49:59 AM
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2011, 11:45 AM   #5
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,371
RE: Is 10 micron enough?

Why not install the Perkins recommended on engine, no matter what the micron rating? Also, beta rating*is more important than a generic stamped on micron size.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2011, 05:15 PM   #6
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,740
Is 10 micron enough?

I also would insist on 2 microns for newer but non common rail diesels like the Yanmar 4LH, 6LP or 6LY or any of the Cummins 6B series.

David*********

*

The older Cummins 6B engines had a 7 micron element I believe, at least that was what I was told by CumminsThat included the 1999 6bta I had in my Mainship and the 1991 6bt I had in my Dodge Ram truck.

*Right now for my Lehman I have 30 to 10 to 7.

*


-- Edited by jleonard on Sunday 17th of July 2011 05:16:06 PM
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 11:33 AM   #7
Guru
 
Egregious's Avatar
 
City: Sunset Beach, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Polly P.
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 554
RE: Is 10 micron enough?

I called my Perkins distributor (I have a 6.354) and asked what was the micron rating for their CAV filters and they said something to the effect of "we don't give them a micron rating, but reccomend using our (Perkins) filters."*

I put the CAV adapter on and used a screw on that ABC reccomended which should be 10.* I think for an old Perkins the only thing a 2 will get you is clogged up faster.* I go 30 --> 10 and haven't had any problems, but my tanks are in good shape.
Egregious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 12:26 PM   #8
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
RE: Is 10 micron enough?

FWIW on the advice of our diesel shop and friends in the marine diesel manufacturing industry we have been running 2-micron filters on everything since buying the boat. We subscribe to the philosophy that if there's any crud in the fuel the farther from the injection system we can stop it the better. Our boat had new fuel tanks that feed from their lowest points when we bought it and the fuel dock we use has a high turnover of fuel and relatively new storage tanks. So far we have yet to see any dirt or water in the filter bowls and the filter elements coming out every 100-150 hours, other than being darker from the dye in the fuel, look just like the new filter elements going in. If one has dirty tanks or a bacteria problem perhaps the progressively-smaller filter idea is better, but I think I'd rather be changing 2-micron filters more often than knowingly passing stuff through to get even closer to the injection system.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 01:26 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Capn Craig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 418
Is 10 micron enough?

Advice I got from the PO of my boat made sense to me and is in aggreement with Marin's comments above.* He suggested running 5 micron* filters in the Racors coming right out of the tanks.* His observation, the filter elements for the Racors cross referenced to Wix, were way cheaper than the CAVs on the Perkins.* So why not capture the crud early.* It safer to capture it early than pass it down stream to capture it later.* It seems to me there is always a chance that crud can get*past when changing filter elements, The secondary filters do that.* The only change I anticipate making is to add vacumn gages downstream of the Racors to give me a heads up on filter condition.


-- Edited by Capn Craig on Tuesday 19th of July 2011 01:27:44 PM
Capn Craig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 03:06 PM   #10
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,742
RE: Is 10 micron enough?

Quote:
Capn Craig wrote:
....suggested running 5 micron* filters in the Racors coming right out of the tanks...

*Capn:* Are you sure you aren't running 2 micron filters?* I think Racors only come in 30, 10 and 2 micron for the 200, 500, 900 and 1000 turbine series?* The 30's are red, the 10's are blue and the 2's are brown.* It would be great if they are making a 5 now.
Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 03:11 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Capn Craig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 418
RE: Is 10 micron enough?

Dunno I guess.* I will check that out.* The elements are Wix not Racor.* I'll take the number of a box and do a little research tonight.
Capn Craig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2012, 01:50 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Baggiolini's Avatar
 
City: Monterey, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Mahalo
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 398
RE: Is 10 micron enough?

Cummins recommended a 10 micron on my 6bt 5.9 but my mechanic had me put 2 micron into the Racors, largely I think, because the secondary filter on the starboard side is reachable only by a midget with very long arms. I'm the size of seven midgets and would have no hope of getting to it but I can swap the racor filter in 2 minutes flat.
Baggiolini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2012, 02:40 PM   #13
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,740
RE: Is 10 micron enough?

If it's the filter arrangement I am thinking of it can be remoted without a lot of work. I believe those filters are 7 micron.

But...if the 2 micron Racor is working for you leave it. Keep in mind that if your fuel gets crudded up the 2 micron will clog quickly compared to a 10 or 30. If that happens you may need to rethink.
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2012, 04:46 AM   #14
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,530
RE: Is 10 micron enough?

We relocated the filters out of the engine space , to a spot where they can be very easily changed.

The pair of Raycor 1000 can easily be switched L to R , so we use the 2micron as primary , and let the on engine 10 micron as backup.

With the new location they are gravity fed , so priming is not a problem.
FF is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2012, 11:34 AM   #15
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,173
RE: Is 10 micron enough?

My Mechanic's wisdom is to use staged filtering: if relying only on the engine's own 2 micron, you have to change that one more frequently;
if you also have Racor 500's, (most common) use 10 in the Racors, backed up by the 2 on the engine; This is also backed up in PMM articles by Steve.
if more anal than that, 30 first, then 10, then 2.
If you put 2 first, the on engine is not going to do anything at all. This may be needed if you can never reach it. Otherwise, you should change that one out on the same frequency as the Racor 10, which will show you when a change is needed, by watching the mess accumulate in the bowl, or if you have a vac guage on top.
If you have really old engines, filtration is not nearly as critical as in new technology.
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2012, 12:39 PM   #16
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,740
RE: Is 10 micron enough?

I have 30 to 10 to on emgiome which is 7.

I think if you go back several years Steve from Passagemaker was a 2 micron only proponent. It was only fairly recently he changed to multistage and that is becuse of all the chatter about it on boatdiesel.
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2012, 05:42 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Fighterpilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 373
Is 10 micron enough?

Boatdiesel.com has an article or two, written by an expert (25 years in the business in California with Cummins and Yanmar engines) on fuel filtering. Believes in stage filtering. Recommends something like a 20 micron to catch the crap, than a 10 for a little finer filtration and than on to the on engine filter which is usually a 2 micron. The first two have water drains ports on the cartridge. With that set up the on engine change is infrequent. Can be purchased with a vacuum gage to keep track of your system as well. Also a primer system. If you want to keep your racor he also has a suggested sytem to incorporate the racor as well. You can also go directly to his web site SeaBoard marine. I have no financial interest in the company but find it to be very reputable. Tony Athens is also a moderator for boatdiesel.com.


-- Edited by Fighterpilot on Saturday 7th of January 2012 06:43:01 PM
Fighterpilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2012, 06:14 PM   #18
dvd
Senior Member
 
dvd's Avatar
 
City: California Bay Area
Country: US
Vessel Name: BOOSTER
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 362
Is 10 micron enough?

I've heard a number of proponents for the 30-10-2 micron staging with the first one referred to as the "mud" filter.

dvd


-- Edited by dvd on Saturday 7th of January 2012 07:15:17 PM
dvd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2012, 07:13 PM   #19
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
RE: Is 10 micron enough?

It may be interesting to some that Racor 2 micron filters are made for the after-market user. The engine manufacturers normally don't require or recommend using them. As a matter of fact, MTU's newest 1900 bar injection pressure common rail engines call for a 5 micron final filter. Denso's latest 3000 bar injection system uses a 10 micron (24 micron absolute) final filter.

The fuel filter on the RR engine that powers Marin's 787 is 10 micron (40 micron absolute) and everyone knows how clean jet fuel has to be right? Most of the engines use 10 to 40 micron filters depending on the model of fuel pump.

Do you think the engine and injection system manufacturers might know what works and doesn't waste money?
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2012, 09:36 PM   #20
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,371
RE: Is 10 micron enough?

boatdiesels tune is 30, 10 and manufacturers on engine recommended filter.*The micron size of the on engine is*as Rikcb points out, not always or necessarily 2 micron.
__________________

sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Micron rating for ordinary toilet paper markpierce Power Systems 31 07-23-2012 04:36 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012