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Old 06-26-2016, 08:53 AM   #41
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We have been boarded by the CG at least a half a dozen times and never have they asked us to do anything that was not easily accomplished. On all these occasions I have always found them to be professional and accommodating and got us on our way within a fairly short period of time. Their initial questions were just about always that same asking if we had any drugs , guns or explosives onboard they should know about before they began their inspection.
Never an issue and certainly glad they are out there doing their job.
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Old 06-26-2016, 09:38 AM   #42
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Went to a government auction in Florida and saw pictures of the inside of a 50 foot sailboat where the owners had illegal drugs on board, so I was told they were suspected of being drug transporters. The entire inside of the boat had been smashed open for the USCG to view into every possible interior concealed space of the boat. And It was pretty devastating to the boat structure. Imagine what sledgehammers, crowbars and saws can do to a boat and that was it.

Does the USCG bring onboard drug sniffing - explosive trained dogs to a boat?
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Old 06-26-2016, 09:56 AM   #43
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Yes to dogs...but never on initial or even most boardings.

Electronics has taken most of the job away from dogs.

I am not sure about swiping of electronics for drugs...after my time. But I am guessing they either have to ask permission or probable cause.

Usually destructive searches are done by or for other agencies being involved somehow and the probable cause has to be pretty strong.
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Old 06-26-2016, 11:00 AM   #44
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We were boarded in '05 heading into Miami on returning from the Bahamas. We were live-a-boards so I had every piece of paper from the time we bought the boat. They kept insisting there was a "problem". Never told is what the problem was. Made us go into the CG station, get off the boat and go behind a building so we could not see what they were doing. This after making me and my wife climb up the side of the concrete pier. After about an hour, and after it was already dark, they turn us loose. After repeatedly asking for an explanation they finally came up with the story that our boat had been involved in some drug activity in '99. This was complete BS since the boat at that time was in a marina in TX and pretty well torn up while we were working on it. After numerous letters up the chain of command with no reasonable explanation I finally gave up. The CG has been on my sh*t list ever since.
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Old 06-26-2016, 11:29 AM   #45
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Rossigal, no offense but you are just plain wrong. You are saying its OK to give up our rights for the greater good I guess and so the govt can take care of us. Adapt means surrender. But then you go on to say we have to defend our rights to defend ourselves, I assume you mean the 2nd Amendment. With this I totally agree, but you are willing to give up some of your rights, just not yet all of them? You know that old saying, little by little, the slippery slope etc. We have given up far too much already.
What he said.

Although the I don't think our founding fathers ever envisioned that the average person would need a 30 round assault weapon. While fun to play with, there is no real need for the average citizen to own one.
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Old 06-26-2016, 11:49 AM   #46
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What he said.

Although the I don't think our founding fathers ever envisioned that the average person would need a 30 round assault weapon. While fun to play with, there is no real need for the average citizen to own one.
I agree...heck... any decent boarding officer...maybe even a retired helo pilot can put way more than 30 double ought rounds down range in not much more time if they practice combat loading of that stainless remingtom.

But the total amount of intrusion in peoples lives for what the USCG does in boardings is all but insignificant. The total time I have wasted on the phone with government inspectors about home modifications or buying smoke detectors or fire extinguishers for an upcoming sale is mind boggling. Hell....in NJ you are taxed for moving out of state.....

Anyone who thinks the USCGs authority which is sparingly used at best, under vigilant judicial review and public view is out of line...it's pales in comparison to our daily intrusions.

Plus...any cop can conduct a warrantless search any time they want...they usually have the gun and the backup. Its just tossed evidence under poison fruit legalese....but they still can do it....and that is why the USCG doesn't do that...they do their safety inspection and wait for a warrant before a real search.

I really haven't heard or have witnessed much change in the USCG boarding policy since becoming Homeland security...even with all the addition legislation that arose to control terrorism. If there was this big erosion of rights...it isn't happening on the water through the fault of the USCG.
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Old 06-26-2016, 11:59 AM   #47
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What he said.

Although the I don't think our founding fathers ever envisioned that the average person would need a 30 round assault weapon. While fun to play with, there is no real need for the average citizen to own one.
The Founders probably didn't envision TV, radio, the internet and a few other things that are still given full Constitutional protection though right? We should not cherry pick our rights. The assault weapon of their day was a musket. Its a whole 'nother argument but the term assault weapon is a misnomer to begin with. AR15's as sold in America are not now and never have been assault weapons. A military M16 such as the CG might have on board is an assault weapon as it has full auto capability, civilian sold AR15's do not. Assault weapon is a coined term that is only meant to do one thing, and that is vilify a class of firearm, by calling them black rifles, only meant to kill people quickly etc. Remember the Clinton "assault weapons" ban of 1994 that expired 10 years later? The net result according to FBI crime statistics was zilch. Meaningless pap for the masses.
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Old 06-26-2016, 12:19 PM   #48
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While I tried to read all the "BLA,BLA,BLA" above here is what matters!

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Sorry I guess it been a long day!
78...there is the reprint of the 4th...it says "against unreasonable searches and seizures"

the courts have determined the USCG inspections to not be "unreasonable"...so who is cherry picking what?


plus the limits to what they did list to be protected isn't all inclusive....the fathers could have left all specifics out or listed a few more like land (not just houses) in general, wagons, boats...etc
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Old 06-26-2016, 12:30 PM   #49
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Keep in mind who USCG is a sub-agency of - DHS. Same with TSA. The Supreme Court ruled this week that warrentless breathalizer tests are legal. Government gone wild...

Having said that, the USCG folks are generally all very nice and decent people. If you a-hole them, they will a-hole you right back, and can tie you up for a very long time if they want.
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Old 06-26-2016, 12:37 PM   #50
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My cherry picking comment was not about the CG issue. I recognize the CG has a special exemption and accept it. My comment was more towards the idea that no one "needs" a so called assault weapon. Its not about need, its a right.


And how many years were you in the Coast Guard?
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Old 06-26-2016, 12:40 PM   #51
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My cherry picking comment was not about the CG issue. I recognize the CG has a special exemption and accept it. My comment was more towards the idea that no one "needs" a so called assault weapon. Its not about need, its a right.


And how many years were you in the Coast Guard?
23...but that doesn't matter as much as what your experience was in...mine was pretty broad stroked, deploying to sea a lot and pretty high up in a major group. Law Enforcement and Security Officer at 2 major Air Stations.


I was the second pilot to go though the USCG's Maritime Law Enforcement School where my real initiation to this whole discussion's essence came from.
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Old 06-26-2016, 12:47 PM   #52
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Greetings,
Mr. 78. It is my understanding that CG officials have the same powers to search as customs and border officials. Ever go through an airport? Warrant less search to be sure but all legal.

By the way, when your vessel is not underway, it can be considered your residence.
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Old 06-26-2016, 01:00 PM   #53
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23...but that doesn't matter as much as what your experience was in...mine was pretty broad stroked, deploying to sea a lot and pretty high up in a major group. Law Enforcement and Security Officer at 2 major Air Stations.


I was the second pilot to go though the USCG's Maritime Law Enforcement School where my real initiation to this whole discussion's essence came from.
As you may have seen in other threads, I too have some fair amount of seafaring experience and was once licensed by the CG to operate Tugboats up to 200 tons and 200 miles offshore. I started working on and around boats at 10 years old as my dad was an independent tugboat operator starting after WWII. Made my first trip to Alaska from Seattle on an old wood tug at age 12 in 1966, and retired from tugs in 1992 as I did not want to be an absentee dad to my kids, which is what going to sea essentially amounts to if you have some. My wife just found my long lost Z card the other day, dated 1971.
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Old 06-26-2016, 01:00 PM   #54
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Greetings,
Mr. 78. It is my understanding that CG officials have the same powers to search as customs and border officials. Ever go through an airport? Warrant less search to be sure but all legal.

By the way, when your vessel is not underway, it can be considered your residence.
Very true...even the USCG ensign is essentially the customs flag with USCG emblem on it..

BUT...they really cant exercise those customs issues without direction or reasonable cause....because the whole idea of how "customs are cleared".

Sure if intel says you are smuggling televisions, the USCG under guidance from Customs can do a seizure...same with immigration smuggling.

This is where this get really muddies with federal code and legal issues...it takes dozens of on watch experts all conferring whether or not some dinky boarding team has the legal right to board and "search" based on probable cause from say an informant. Just the separate CFRs giving authorities to all government agencies aren't truly stand alone in the real world...but without each one spelling out possible authority...it would forever be questioned in court.
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Old 06-26-2016, 01:02 PM   #55
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Greetings,
Mr. 78. It is my understanding that CG officials have the same powers to search as customs and border officials. Ever go through an airport? Warrant less search to be sure but all legal.

By the way, when your vessel is not underway, it can be considered your residence.
True but the airport thing is a fairly modern iteration of this whole thing. I mean it is what it is, doesn't mean we have to like it or even accept it at least on some level. Many wrongs don't make a right.
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Old 06-26-2016, 01:16 PM   #56
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That is entirely the point...


Some "opinions" don't make it right or wrong...it is the perception that it is for the greater good and how it got that way through government might be debatable...but it did go through.


The courts uphold it.


So who is to determine whether it is right or wrong?


I find it "reasonable" all things considered so I'll keep plugging for the OK to do it camp.


If it gets worse than it is....then I will certainly be the first to switch.


But reality...my monthly pay from the USCG is lower now than it was in 2006 (came across an old stub the other day)....why? I think even though I have no dependents in my health care (which was promised to be free for life if I did my duty)...it has gone up that much and cost of living raises haven't even made up for any of it.


So if I think the ONE USCG boarding I have had in 50 years of boating is an issue compared to my retired pay....wow....I would be only fooling myself.


Of ll the issues out there...as I posted before...USCG boardings haven't even climbed into my plus column yet.
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Old 06-26-2016, 01:25 PM   #57
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Much ado about nothing... I don't see a single post here where an inspection was unreasonable and I have never found them to be unreasonable when boarded or otherwise. I would wait until I had something to complain about before I made an issue of being inspected.

I suppose my attitude about that is because up here, with no smuggling going on, every boarding I know of is a safety and compliance inspection. Not a search for contraband,
and I might feel differently about it if I lived and boated in an area where smuggling was prevalent.
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Old 06-26-2016, 01:40 PM   #58
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Remember that my original post was about what ones obligations were (after) being boarded. This thread then morphed into the constitutional argument question which I had not posed. I had not anticipated a hot debate on the merits of the CG authority.
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Old 06-26-2016, 03:53 PM   #59
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I may have missed something small...but I think post #13 was the first to mention something about the constitution and rights...
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Old 06-26-2016, 04:18 PM   #60
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I may have missed something small...but I think post #13 was the first to mention something about the constitution and rights...
Well you got me there all right! In defense that was coupled to my reply about being a sea lawyer. It was not my intention as the OP to get into a big discussion as to the merits or lack thereof, of the CG's position relating to the BoR's. I had thought it might be an interesting discussion and in that I guess I should not be too disappointed.
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