Will this Replace Flares?

[BruceK]

The electronic version is $179 AUD from our main chandlery chain, but not yet approved to replace the old ones. I think our RMS authority is considering it, especially as disposing of the old ones is a PIA. It will pay for itself over several years and no more disposal issues.
Bring it on. But I know for some Tfers, nothing will ever replace flares, especially teamed with a body shirt.

 

[BandB]

Why not just put old flares in a plastic bucket of water to soak for a month.
Should completely ruin them.
Then dump the water and throw in the trash.

Other than it being highly illegal you mean?

 

[kwmeyer13]

Just set them off on the 4th of July if you are looking to get rid of them. Can't be anymore illegal then the fireworks that turn many neighborhoods into a war zone every year.

 

[koliver]

Hiow hard can it be to aim your out of date flares down into the water and set them off?

 

[dhays]

Not yet approved in Canada.

In the US, meets VDS (Visual Distress Signal) requirements at night only.

For daytime distress, Pyrotechnics, type A, B or C are still required, from the Safe Boating Guide

I should read down because I think that someone probably already pointed this out, but a distress flag will meet the daytime visual signal requirements. So the light signal for nighttime and the distress flag for daytime eliminates the legal need for pyro entirely. In the US anyway.

 

[BandB]

I should read down because I think that someone probably already pointed this out, but a distress flag will meet the daytime visual signal requirements. So the light signal for nighttime and the distress flag for daytime eliminates the legal need for pyro entirely. In the US anyway.

Problem is that a huge percentage of us boat outside the US and doubt any know the rules in all other countries. So keep flares. Plus I think today the likelihood of someone reacting to them is much greater than a light. There are a lot of different lights out there and I don't know what percentage of people would detect one as a cry for help. However, once help was called for, I do see them as excellent beacons to aid in being found. In today's world, visual is far down the list of our best first way to call for help anyway and far down the list of best ways to show our location.

 

[dhays]

I keep the flares, I just am not counting on them to keep me in legal compliance. For daytime use, I have a SOLAS smoke flair that I think would be more effective than the typical launched flare.

 

[Bigsfish]

As I see it one advantage of the electrical light signal system is the length of time it lasts as opposed to a flare. I do gave both and will use both if necessary which in more than 50 years of boating hasn't been necessary.

 

[High Wire]

Just set them off on the 4th of July if you are looking to get rid of them. Can't be anymore illegal then the fireworks that turn many neighborhoods into a war zone every year.

Those 12 ga flares come back to the ground burning for a few seconds!!! Sucks to be whatever they land on! Don't ask me how I know.

 

[HopCar]

Those 12 ga flares come back to the ground burning for a few seconds!!! Sucks to be whatever they land on! Don't ask me how I know.

I've fired enough out of date flares to notice that it seems the lift charge gets weaker the older the flare. An old flare is much more likely to still be burning when it hits the ground than a new flare.

I once fired an old SOLAS parachute flare. Boy was that stupid! The rocket didn't lift it more than about 50 feet! It bounced off my neighbors alluminum awning and hung up in a bush just off the ground. It seemed to burn forever. Somehow it didn't start a fire.

 

[Jeff F]

I once fired an old SOLAS parachute flare. Boy was that stupid! The rocket didn't lift it more than about 50 feet! It bounced off my neighbors alluminum awning and hung up in a bush just off the ground. It seemed to burn forever. Somehow it didn't start a fire.

LOL. This is when I miss having a like button.

 

[Waterford]

I bought the electronic flare at the Seattle Boat Show. Yes, it flashes SOS and is highly visible. I was "told" that if I label expired flares "FOR TRAINING ONLY" that I can still have them on the boat without penalty. I vacuum sealed and labeled them all as such and have them just in case I need to do some "training" when the boat is sinking.

 

[Bigsfish]

Waterford

I have never heard of any law saying that you couldn't have expired flares on board only that they won't meet the requirement because they are out of date.

Is that a local law?

 

[Lou_tribal]

Just got rid of a whole bunch of old expired flares. The PO was only keeping them forever, I had flares from 1993, even dated before by boat was built! I think I had something like 80 flares from 1993 to 2011, kind of a collection. I found very dangerous to keep all these oldies aboard, especially that some were starting to fall apart. Just imagine if one fires, my boat would have been a firework by itself.
I went to the firefighter station nearby and they directed me to a recycling center not far. They collected them and put them in the dangerous material tank and that's it.
I kept 5 flares from 2011 just in case of failure of the new ones I bought but nothing more.

L.

 

[wwestman]

In my experience on USCG inspected boats, the USCG inspector did not want expired flares in close proximity to the required ones. They had to be in a separate container and labeled as expired. There was no issue with having them aboard as long as someone would not grab the expired ones by mistake.

On a uninspected vessel you can do what you want as long as you have the required flares on board, since you are not supject to the inspection that a commercial vessel endures every year. But keeping them apart just makes sense.

 

[Bigsfish]

Wwestman

Inspector not wanting and whether it violates a law are two different things. Is it illegal to keep expired flares on the boat if you have properly dated (current) that comply with the CG regulations?

 

[Waterford]

I looked it up and you are correct. They can be carried as "extra equipment" but do not count toward the requirement.

 

[Bigsfish]

Thank you. That is what I was able to find also.

I thought SCOTT might chime in being a CG guy.

 

[Insequent]

The electronic version is $179 AUD from our main chandlery chain, but not yet approved to replace the old ones. I think our RMS authority is considering it, especially as disposing of the old ones is a PIA. It will pay for itself over several years and no more disposal issues.
Bring it on. But I know for some Tfers, nothing will ever replace flares, especially teamed with a body shirt.

I was told by a chandlery employee recently that they have had customers coming in and saying they had been fined for keeping expired flares on board their boat. Under the law here in several States, flares are governed by pyrotechnics legislation, and in-date flares are specifically exempted from requiring the holder to be licenced. But once out of date, that exemption falls away.

I am a month away from having to replace the handheld flares. Towards the end of that month there is a boat show where the authorities will have a booth, so I will harangue them about the expired flares and electronic flare replacement issues. It adds to the fun of boat shows!

Like many folks I plan to keep the most recently expired ones on board as well as one set that is current, on both my registered tender and boat. But I also have 3 x 12ga pistols. I rummaged around and found old 12ga meteors going back to 1984! The PO never ditched any it seems! I'm ditching about 30 with expiry dates up to 2015. We have several facilities nearby that take them.

Later this morning a sailor is catching up with me - he wants to buy one of my flare pistols and asked to take the expired meteors. I will give him 9 that exp 2008 and 2 exp in 2015 that are in good condition. I am not prepared to give him the older ones, they look really dodgy and I would hate for him to try and use them and have a problem.

My problem is finding 12ga meteor replacements in Australia. So far I cannot locate a source, which in any event needs to be local as shipping of flares anywhere has just become very difficult - hazmat issues. I decided to keep 2 exp 2015 meteors for the time being.

My main rescue means is 3 x EPIRBS with GPS. They take the 'search' element out of 'search and rescue'. One each on the tender and boat, and a personal one for my lifejacket.

 

[BandB]

I am a month away from having to replace the handheld flares. Towards the end of that month there is a boat show where the authorities will have a booth, so I will harangue them about the expired flares and electronic flare replacement issues. It adds to the fun of boat shows!

.

Problem in the US and I'd think to some degree in Australia is that there are various layers of law enforcement, each with their own set of rules.

 

[ssobol]

I got one of the electronic "flares" to avoid the expired flare fine. Where I live it is not so easy to get flares, and it is hard to ship them or transport them because they are hazardous material. "C" batteries, on the other hand, are not and are easy to come by. Flares that are days, weeks, or even a few months out of date are likely to work fine so I will keep them on hand (they don't suddenly stop working on the day of expiration). The electronic device just will keep me from being caught out by the boat fuzz, man.

 

[Group9]

I got one of the electronic "flares" to avoid the expired flare fine. Where I live it is not so easy to get flares, and it is hard to ship them or transport them because they are hazardous material. "C" batteries, on the other hand, are not and are easy to come by. Flares that are days, weeks, or even a few months out of date are likely to work fine so I will keep them on hand (they don't suddenly stop working on the day of expiration). The electronic device just will keep me from being caught out by the boat fuzz, man.

That's our belt and suspenders policy as well. We have one of the Weems and Plath laser flares, but also about twenty expired flares that we keep on board as well. If only a 1/4 of them go off, that's still a lot of flaring!

 

[Off Duty]

I got one of the electronic "flares" to avoid the expired flare fine. Where I live it is not so easy to get flares, and it is hard to ship them or transport them because they are hazardous material. "C" batteries, on the other hand, are not and are easy to come by. Flares that are days, weeks, or even a few months out of date are likely to work fine so I will keep them on hand (they don't suddenly stop working on the day of expiration). The electronic device just will keep me from being caught out by the boat fuzz, man.

Totally agree!
Not only does it add to your toolbox of safety equipment, but with federal, state and local budgets being what they are (and are likely to be), and many local and state agencies unwilling to work within those constraints (mine was/is a perfect example of that), I'm seeing all sorts of petty violations that would have resulted in warnings years back, being written as violations now. Many with ridiculous fines connected. Anything one can do to abate these is a good thing.

This will definitely be part of my arsenal going forward.

OD

 

[Benthic2]

epirbs and dsc distress are great...but sometimes the best rescue is the civilian boater a mile away. In that case I think the old school Mayday + Flares would get you help the fastest. As many have said.....if you're going down...the more options you have the better, as long as everyone on board knows how to use them all and can prioritize them for the situation.

 

[Mike Negley]

SOS Electronic Flares

The SOS Electronic flare was invented by a young Auxiliarist in CA. It took almost four years to get approval from the USCG, but I think it is a very good safety device compared to a traditional pyrotechnic flare. It doesn’t expire, is not dangerous to use, is simple to operate, it floats and is weather resistant and is less expensive than the standard four flare package and only requires three C batteries. Its strobe is visible for miles. It makes an excellent “marker” for a man overboard at night and can be deployed in seconds. The electronic flare will continue to display for up to 60 hours.++
Now look at the pyrotechnic version which Pyrotechnic signaling devices (including aerial flares and hand held signals) expire 42 months after the date of manufacture in accordance with the Coast Guard. The 42 months include the many weeks they have been on a retailer’s shelf. As has been mentioned, they are nearly impossible to dispose of.after expiry.
Most boat owners have never read the directions on the package as to lighting one and they have never actually used one. Keep in mind they are normally used (If they can locate them in the boat) in a crisis situation. The typical scenario involves someone after getting it ignited to hold it up in the stern of the boat where there are places to hold on such at the motors if an outboard. Very quickly the red-hot slag from the flare will begin to drip down the flare and burn their hand and they will either drop it in the boat or overboard. If it falls near the fuel tanks the whole boat will become the flare. If you choose to use traditional flares. Make a 10 foot piece of PVC pipe that will hold the flare up and away from the boat. A pair of welding gloves can come in handy too. Hand-held flares burn for less than 40 seconds.

 

[psneeld]

If you have ever dealt with Search and Rescue....you wouldn't be too impressed with either lights or flares as primary alert tools.

They work fine in a small percentage of cases.. thats my experience.

The USCG has to require something for alerting nearby resources....but the options are not good.

 

[Martin J]

Seems to me just a modified MOB light. I think i'd still stay with flares going some 00's of feet in the air visible for miles to signify I was in trouble. I cannot believe it would be any use in 15-20ft seas in the open ocean. Would it be any use? Maybe it has more candle power than traditional MOB lights attached to qui8ck release mob equipment.

In the earlier thread on this matter, one contributer, acknowledged he ran courses etc on using flares. I did the same in Bermuda prior to our ocean races etc. I got the same results New flares 20% failures, old flares 3=5 yrs out of date 15% failures. Also I ran the course from my company barge in the middle of the great sound 2miles from shore. (all emergency services notified and on board) After 2 hours of firing flares etc, they would be lucky to get 2 calls. The net result nobody I believe would see the light. The best security is to take all precautions to make sure you do not get in trouble in the first place......

 

[psneeld]

There are several phases of rescue.

Certain items are much better than others but usually only for one phase or several depending on the conditions.

Once search units are out in your general area, any decent light will attract attention. Battery powered items last longer but flares are brighter. Tradeoff.

In waters covered by coastal SAR resources, nothing like a PLB/EPIRB and now some of the other alert devices. But a visual device is great for bringing them in the last few miles.

 

[hjorgan]

I carry both flares and the new strobes (and the required orange flag which I don't really understand). The flares because I always have had flares. The strobe to make sure I'm legal. The EPIRB, PLB, handheld VHF, redundant mounted VHFs, cell booster..... to make sure I get found.

 

[Grandbanksgreg64]

I feel like flares are always going to have their place... those laser flares are interesting, but can't imagine they'd be seen or have close to of an impact as shooting off a flare in the middle of the night. Having both would be ideal though...