Will this Replace Flares?

[BandB]

We in the CGAUX have been instructed to accept those lights that meet CG requirements as stated on manufacturers labeling. The individual lights do not carry a specific approval but will be accepted as flair replacement provided the day signal is also aboard. I keep my old flairs. so I have belt and suspenders flares- light -flag - smoke bombs-three radios one mobile and two cell phones with CG apps. maybe I should also put a laser in my flare box?

I wasn't referring to all, just the specific one being discussed.

 

[BandB]

The concept of distress lights are 2 fold...

1. Alert.....alert someone you are in trouble. Lights are dimmer usually than Pyro, but last longer.

2. Locate.... search units are already alerted, and if nearby, the visual will bring them in.

Electronic means will alert, then bring them in from WAYYYYY further away than any visual means would. Plus weather is much less of a factor for electronic.

I would never remotely bet my life on a flare or light. I carry the minimum required plus oldies and spend a few months beer money on DSC radios with good antennas and plbs. EPIIRB on the close horizon.

Flares are an outmoded technology from another era and were only of very limited use even then. Too many better means of communication today. I am with you that I would never bank of a flare or light, but instead have multiple electronic means of communication. Now electronic flares could be helpful after alerting to help rescuers see you.

 

[dhays]

I have one SOLAS orange flare (expired). I have plenty of flares on board but am allowing those to expire. I have the approved led strobe night signal.

I like the smoke signals as I think they are a lot more visible than the flares during the day. I like the led night signal since it won't expire.

 

[North Baltic sea]

Flares are an outmoded technology from another era and were only of very limited use even then. Too many better means of communication today. I am with you that I would never bank of a flare or light, but instead have multiple electronic means of communication. Now electronic flares could be helpful after alerting to help rescuers see you.

system electronics is good if you have built a ship's electric Organize them like a ship. most of our battery bank under boat, if the leakage of water will short-circuit the electronics and says good-bye to you.

traditional pyro emergency equipment operating in the wet. the only un success of the pyro is if the best before date expired, they may work, but not always, and also a small risk of fire or personal injury, if you have the old pyro safety equipment. this has been studied so it was not an opinion but a fact.

have you ignored the batteries your electronics to place as high as possible in mind sinking allowing you to speak or send a VHF DSC distress message when the water rising above the battery?

 

[BandB]

system electronics is good if you have built a ship's electric Organize them like a ship. most of our battery bank under boat, if the leakage of water will short-circuit the electronics and says good-bye to you.

traditional pyro emergency equipment operating in the wet. the only un success of the pyro is if the best before date expired, they may work, but not always, and also a small risk of fire or personal injury, if you have the old pyro safety equipment. this has been studied so it was not an opinion but a fact.

have you ignored the batteries your electronics to place as high as possible in mind sinking allowing you to speak or send a VHF DSC distress message when the water rising above the battery?

No, i haven't ignored anything.

 

[psneeld]

EPIIRB, PLB batteries are self contained and remain the top of the rescue equipment pyramid right beside or maybe just under the human brain.

Redundancy and knowing what circumstances would limit their effectiveness is key

 

[BandB]

EPIIRB, PLB batteries are self contained and remain the top of the rescue equipment pyramid right beside or maybe just under the human brain.

Redundancy and knowing what circumstances would limit their effectiveness is key

Combine those with electronics with trip plans and communication of them with family or friends and you have a system for notification there are problems and for locating. Alert and locate as you listed above. Far better than leaving it to the chance observation of a flare and then finding that location.

We have tools today that just weren't available decades and centuries ago when flares were the best we had.

 

[psneeld]

But for the guy in a tin skiff in the ICW, most everything else is way more expensive and depending where and when, overkill.

Like some ABYC standards, USCG requirements of one size fits all is not appropriate.

 

[cappy208]

Laser. Interesting. Never thought of a laser as a directional attention getting item. But for the eyesight issue for pilots.........

 

[eyschulman]

Laser. Interesting. Never thought of a laser as a directional attention getting item. But for the eyesight issue for pilots.........

That issue may have been addressed by my fuzzy memory I think a safe unit has been developed.

 

[HopCar]

This is the company making the laser flares. They say that it is eye safe at distances greater than 13 feet. It projects a line of light, not a point.
How do Greatland Laser rescue lasers work?

 

[BruceK]

Anything that avoids finding somewhere to dispose of the last but one set of flares will be welcome. I keep the last expired lot in the hope they might still do some good. Gone are the days you could try the expired ones on NYE.

 

[HopCar]

I've just been reading about those laser flares and they suggest another use besides signaling for help. They say you can use them to search for things that have retroreflective material on them. You could spot markers or life jackets at greater distances than you could with a spotlight.

No Coast Guard or SOLAS approval so they don't replace pyrotechnics.

 

[psneeld]

True about using them to spot channel markers.

Disposal isn't all that hard, split and soak the handheld. Shoot 12ga into a body of water or water sand barrel.

25mm flares or rocket flares I would just request a training session from rescue agency nearby, and show family friends how they work.

Easy,?....we'll depends on one's motivation and creativity.

 

[kartracer]

HopCar how much are they??

 

[Sea Q]

I have had not real good luck using LED's in bad weather .
The light is very easily absorbed by the rain and fog .
Great in good weather.
I think with all the electronics on our boats flares are the last ditch options

 

[HopCar]

[STRIKE][/STRIKE]

HopCar how much are they??

They run $110 and $125 for the red ones and $300 for the green one.
I'm not a dealer but I'm thinking about it. If they'd get a USCG or Solas approval, I'd be all over them. It looks like they mostly market them in the avation industry.
Products - Greatland Laser

 

[rwidman]

I have had not real good luck using LED's in bad weather .
The light is very easily absorbed by the rain and fog .
Great in good weather.
I think with all the electronics on our boats flares are the last ditch options

How many times have you had to use your LED flare substitute in bad weather? How many times in total have you had to use it?

 

[Salish Nomad]

Is the Weems product accepted by the Canadian C.G.?

 

[Benthic2]

I think the safety concern of carrying flares on board is being overblown. Think of how many boats are out there with flares on them, and how many accidental ignitions there have been. I'd guess that we are in the statistical neighborhood of damage by falling space debris.

I like the idea of the "LED Flare", but for the cost, reliability and most importantly the visual range, I can't see how I'd ever regret having flares on board.

Don't forget that your dsc usually depends on your electrical system, and dsc in a handheld is great but the range is limited and so is the audience.

When it all goes bad, more options is a good thing.

 

[HopCar]

Benthic, the little boy in me loves flares but the adult in me tells me they are obsolete.

Satellite based communication has made them obsolete. Now all you need is something to guide your rescuers the last mile to you.

This was the function of hand held flares and handheld flares are dangerous. They drip big gobs of burning sulfur! The Weems light will serve the same function without burning holes in a life raft or me.

I just bought one of the Weems lights for my boat. With the type of cruising I do my cell phone is my primary way to call for help, the times I'm out of cell coverage, my PLB or VHF will work. I'll probably keep a package of aerial flares aboard to make the little boy in me happy, but the Weems light will keep the Coasties off my back if the flares go out of date.

 

[BruceK]

....

Satellite based communication has made them obsolete. Now all you need is something to guide your rescuers the last mile to you.... handheld flares are dangerous. They drip big gobs of burning sulfur! The Weems light will serve the same function without burning holes in a life raft or me...

The pyrotechnic kind might be less daunting if you could practise with old ones but you can`t, for fear of sparking rescue. And then there`s disposing of expired ones.
Epirbs are proven locators,for land and sea. Combined with a new extended time light source flare,the chance of rescue rises.

 

[Jeffrey S]

ActiveCaptain introduced the Sirius Signal Flare nearly 2 years ago (since transferred to Weems & Plath). I set up a special forum with the CEO of the company who answered questions live. Defender bought all their stock and we aligned everything as a Defender 1st special with a one-week price of $79.99 announced at 7:30 am on our normal Wednesday newsletter day. I knew it was going to be a big hit.

By 11 am, Defender had sold all the units they purchased. Sirius worked overtime for more than a month to just fill the orders from that one week. Defender and Sirius warned that there would be a shipment delay of a week or more but everyone kept ordering it.

Defender told me that in their 70 years of business, nothing had ever sold so much, so fast.

I've had the product since just prior to that sale - I wanted to play with it before writing about it. I change the batteries every year. It's a wonderful product and I'd definitely reach for it first in an emergency - it's in my pilothouse drawer right now. I do also carry a full complement of pyrotechnic flares. I'd hate to have to use them in a real emergency with slag dripping down though - make sure you burn through a few to see what it's like. We did that at an MTOA rendezvous one year - it was very enlightening.

Bottom line - it's a fantastic product.

 

[HopCar]

Bruce, you mentioned how hard it is to dispose of old pyrotechnics. I once decided to figure out how to legally dispose of old flares in South Florida. I started with the county hazardous waste disposal site, then tried the Coasr Guard, the auxiliary and the fire department. Nobody knew of a legal way to dispose of flares. I finally called the State of Florida Fire Marshal. He didn't know either, but being a nice guy, he found out for me. I only had to drive three hours each way to a special hazardous waste incinerator on the West coast of Florida.

 

[BruceK]

Bruce, you mentioned how hard it is to dispose of old pyrotechnics.... I only had to drive three hours each way to a special hazardous waste incinerator on the West coast of Florida.

That`s a long drive! Maritime used to take them, Police stations too, now Maritime has a roving collection service, visiting boat ramps etc, specified dates and times. Probably beats your 6 hour drive, but a fixed central collection point would be better. Another reason to change over, especially as use by/disposal is every 4 years.
Electronic versions are available here but as far as I can see they are not yet approved substitute/replacements.

 

[sdowney717]

Just had a thought...
If you light off a handheld flare and they come to rescue you, do you throw the burning flare into the water? The police or USCG won't think your polluting? I suppose I would do just that toss it in.

I have many old flares, hand held and gun type. I just keep buying new ones.
Some shells are so old, the brass ends are cracking. I have seen thin stamped sheet brasses tend to crack over decades. Those still fit in the gun, wonder if they would fire off. Anyone heard of old flare guns exploding?

Of note they say 1 flare contaminates 240,000 gallons of water with perchlorate.
Ok, but how hazardous is such a substance in the water. Today's strict EPA simply calls it a contaminant.

 

[meridian]

Yes they do! This is from testing old shells. Fortunately it was in the winter and I was able to throw it into the snow.

 

[GFC]

Bruce, you mentioned how hard it is to dispose of old pyrotechnics. I once decided to figure out how to legally dispose of old flares in South Florida. I started with the county hazardous waste disposal site, then tried the Coasr Guard, the auxiliary and the fire department. Nobody knew of a legal way to dispose of flares. I finally called the State of Florida Fire Marshal. He didn't know either, but being a nice guy, he found out for me. I only had to drive three hours each way to a special hazardous waste incinerator on the West coast of Florida.

There's a much easier way. I have hosted three "Flare Demo Day" events for our yacht club. I notify all the local fire depts., police depts., emergency dispatch centers, USCG, etc of the date and time and location of the event.

We open it to the public and hold it on the banks of the Columbia River. The fire dept usually sends an ambulance crew down to do a PR standby while we hold the event and in case of an emergency.

In each of the events about 50+/- people have shown up and shot off about 250 flares of various types.

I have kept an informal tally of what works and what doesn't. It seems the only ones that do not work are the kind you hold up in your hand and pull sharply on the string to ignite it. About half of those do not work.

All of the other kinds have worked fine.

 

[BandB]

When approved as replacements, they'll probably replace, but until that point, they will struggle. The problem is that most boaters, not those here, but the general boating world, carry flares only because they must. They don't really think they'll ever have to use them. So, they're going to carry what satisfies the legal requirements, nothing more.

 

[HopCar]

BandB, the Weems light is USCG approved as night signal. No flares required.
The flag that comes with it is approved as a day signal. No smoke signals needed.