Tragedy in Canada

[Mark P]

So what happened up there in Canada on that lake? CNN reports that a boat collision occurred and two people killed. I read one boat may not have had nav lights on. How does that happen?? Any better info from our friends in Canada?

 

[psneeld]

A HUGE number of boats run around with no or improper lighting.

 

[LaBomba]

There were actually 2 separate boat collisions last weekend in Ontario. 1 dead in one and 2 died in the other. Only the one on Lake Joseph is making news since a tv star was involved and he made a statement that the other boat had no nav lights on. That is not proven and his boat was going at a high rate of speed when it hit the other boat on a lake on a very dark night. Everyone is very tight lipped at the moment.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. MP. Not much more is known at this point. https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry...669267e4b01fcc690d2cff?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage

 

[Gdavid]

Conflicting reports as to whether lights navigation lights were on. O'Leary claims no lights and the other boat left the scene, the other boat operator claims nav lights were on and he left to scene to seek assistance. O'Leary's boat did not have radar, I don't know if the other boat did but doubt it.


I should not make assumptions but I believe it is safe to say that many boaters dramatically overestimate their abilities to read observe and interpret navigational lights adequately. It takes many hours on the water observing and testing yourself before adequately acquiring this skill much less maintaining it, I truly doubt most recreational boaters spend enough time on the water at night to be proficient at it. The boaters with the best understanding of their abilities tend to stay put at night and I believe that is where most trawler owners tend to fall. Based on conversations on this site, aside from open water crossings, boating at night is uncommon among this crowd and we have far better more suitable boats for operating in adverse conditions than your average runabout (Radar, AIS, Elevated and more stable helm positions). Most of us also cruise under 10 knots yet are still unlikely to be underway at night, which I believe is sensible for most boaters.


I worked for years as a deck hand on a fishing head boat which ran between 6pm to 12 am which give me many hours of practice and experience. At the time I became confident in my skills but I honestly don't have the same proficiency now and therefore am much more unlikely to be underway at night. We should be honest and prudent with our capabilities.

 

[rslifkin]

I'll agree that running at night in a lot of areas is a questionable proposition, especially for those who don't do it regularly.

In my case, I've got good visibility from my helm position (not flybridge good, but eyeballs about 11.5 feet above the water). No radar though. So unless I'm somewhere with minimal stuff in the water I may need to see, minimal other traffic, etc. I tend to avoid night running. And if I do it, it's done at displacement speed (so 6.5 - 7 kts for my boat) both to give more time to see things and to keep noise down so I can better hear what's going on around us.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. Gd. Lack of visibility is one factor with night boating. No mention is yet made of the speed of either vessel.

 

[Group9]

Running at speed at night, with and without lights, seems to cause most of the accidents that I am aware of.

Running fast at night, is just an accident waiting to happen. We even had an Aegis cruiser down here, doing fast night trials several years ago, and even with all of their high powered radars, manage to hit a floating abandoned dredge pipe and put a major hole in the hull.

 

[dhays]

Gdavid’s post is an excellent one.

I don’t run at night as much as I did as a kid. No radar back then and a lot more floating hazards in my waters than there are now. I actually like to run at night depending on the location, conditions, and time of year. However, I only cruise at 7 knots day or night and now I do have radar.

Some places in Puget Sound are really tough at night if we have a cityscape to deal with. Picking out nav lights in a visual field filled with bright lights is really hard and something that I avoid.

 

[Seevee]

A HUGE number of boats run around with no or improper lighting.

Excellent point, Paul....


Occasionally, I'll just sit outside the ICW at anchor and count the boats without a light I can see. I consistently end up with about 2 out of 5 that are missing one light, and 1 in 5 with no lights.


So, for us boaters in my area (West FL), I could argue that we be VERY cautious running at night. However, I do it a lot, especially in the winter when it's dark at 5.



I can also argue radar and bright lites help. I'll light up the cabin so it's not in anyone's eyes, but very visible.



Now, on a moon lit night, it's gorgeous.

 

[BandB]

O'Leary was quick to say the other boat had no navigation lights on and then left the scene and to claim his wife was at the helm. Then said nothing more "due to the ongoing investigation."

Clearly we have no facts yet as to involvement of speed or lights or alcohol or who was at the helm or any other pertinent information.

Night boating has inherent risks and speed definitely increases them.

 

[diver dave]

Age, and proficiency absolutely. I had a flight instructor have me land a plane at nite without ILS, NVG, landing lights or runway lights. That's bearing down on concrete at 80 mph. Not going to attempt such a feat now.

 

[rgano]

I live on a very quiet sparsely backlit bayou in an area with little night traffic outside of departing shrimpers, yet almost nightly I see one or two small boats flying by my unlighted pier in the narrow (200-yards wide) part of the bayou. They seem to have lights, but I never see evidence of a searchlight. The bayou ends a few hundred yards farther on up; so I have no clue why these people are running flat out in the inky blackness. There used to be a thriving drug running operation in the area, but there is a classified US Govt marina around the corner which once had a thriving DEA group with a few go-fast boats in the 30-40 foot range which I thought put an end to that. Nowadays, the vessels there seem smaller and more concerned with some sort of diving ops. One day as I was coming up the back headed for home I saw two 40-foot cigarette boats (Govt-owned I am sure) roaring down the bay at full throttle side-by-side no more than two feet apart. Now what were they up to - trying a radar trick to make somebody think only one boat was there? OR clowning around with my tax money.

 

[SoWhat]

Conflicting reports as to whether lights navigation lights were on. O'Leary claims no lights and the other boat left the scene, the other boat operator claims nav lights were on and he left to scene to seek assistance.

O'Leary immediately blamed the other boat. If I had an injured passenger bleeding profusely I would head full throttle to nearest location to meet ambulance. Unlikely a CG helo is going to rush to the rescue on an inland lake.

Seems like a complete blackout of news but it appears as though O'Leary's boat hit the other boat. Several news sources have identified the other boat as a 13 passenger pontoon boat.

 

[BandB]

O'Leary immediately blamed the other boat. If I had an injured passenger bleeding profusely I would head full throttle to nearest location to meet ambulance. Unlikely a CG helo is going to rush to the rescue on an inland lake.

Seems like a complete blackout of news but it appears as though O'Leary's boat hit the other boat.

O'Leary is use to years of being a public figure and immediately had a spin control release. Now, if he wasn't a public figure that might not have been necessary.

I expect the investigation to take some time. It includes interviewing all the boaters and passengers but also any others who witnessed them on the water and those who were present when they left whatever docks they were previously docked at.

We lived for years on a lake. Only were out on it one time at night and went very slowly as the weather conditions are what has us out still. However, many nights we'd hear but never see bass boats buzzing by. Now, ironically, the younger fishermen used their running lights but a significant percentage of the older ones did not. Their argument was they could see better without them, which was largely true. They overlooked the fact that their purpose isn't to see but to be seen.

 

[Richard W]

O'Leary was quick to say the other boat had no navigation lights on and then left the scene and to claim his wife was at the helm. Then said nothing more "due to the ongoing investigation."

Yup, I found the unsubstantiated double accusation problematic, and then the "no comment" when asked for supporting info purely unethical but he is what he is. The OPP (investigating police) is not talking either ... time will tell ... the lawsuits and countersuits will follow.

The speed was a factor if not a primary reason for this to happen.

 

[rsn48]

My favorite idiot was a guy who installed his own nav lights except he reversed them . I was at the Vancouver fireworks and I noticed this reversed situation. When I pointed it out to him, it was clear he thought I was the idiot

 

[Seevee]

O'Leary immediately blamed the other boat. If I had an injured passenger bleeding profusely I would head full throttle to nearest location to meet ambulance. Unlikely a CG helo is going to rush to the rescue on an inland lake.

Seems like a complete blackout of news but it appears as though O'Leary's boat hit the other boat. Several news sources have identified the other boat as a 13 passenger pontoon boat.

Yea, take care of the injured FIRST.


Question: who was killed in this accident? Guys on the pontoon boat?

 

[Seevee]

Age, and proficiency absolutely. I had a flight instructor have me land a plane at nite without ILS, NVG, landing lights or runway lights. That's bearing down on concrete at 80 mph. Not going to attempt such a feat now.

Sure you can.... just do it on a moon lit night. Or use your "autoland" feature.

 

[dhays]

Age, and proficiency absolutely. I had a flight instructor have me land a plane at nite without ILS, NVG, landing lights or runway lights. That's bearing down on concrete at 80 mph. Not going to attempt such a feat now.

I had a flight instructor take the controls FROM me while landing at night with runway lights. I would have blithely driven the plane into the ground as the different visual clues were messing with my perspective and I was probably 25' closer to the ground than I thought I was.

 

[diver dave]

Sure you can.... just do it on a moon lit night. Or use your "autoland" feature.

HA! had neither. used the wingtip navs lights bouncing off the blacktop. It wasn't much light.

 

[Seevee]

I had a flight instructor take the controls FROM me while landing at night with runway lights. I would have blithely driven the plane into the ground as the different visual clues were messing with my perspective and I was probably 25' closer to the ground than I thought I was.

Yea, hate when that happens. If ya don't like what you see, just close your eyes.

 

[soin2la]

https://globalnews.ca/news/5944735/...ther&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014
The "no nav lights" might be tough to prove, unless there is a long line of inependent witnesses.
My (anecdotal) understanding is, they were not underway and were just sitting, enjoying the stars.
Did they have ANY lights on? I don't know.
Could the collision have destroyed any evidence of whether or not lights were on? I don't know that either.

 

[boatpoker]

Both boats in the O'Leary incident have been charged.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/kevin-oleary-wife-charged-in-boat-crash-1.5295463

 

[Comodave]

https://globalnews.ca/news/5944735/...ther&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014
The "no nav lights" might be tough to prove, unless there is a long line of inependent witnesses.
My (anecdotal) understanding is, they were not underway and were just sitting, enjoying the stars.
Did they have ANY lights on? I don't know.
Could the collision have destroyed any evidence of whether or not lights were on? I don't know that either.

You are underway if you are not anchored, made fast to the shore or aground. Just sitting and not anchored, made fast to the shore or aground then you are underway with no way on. But you are still underway and responsible for navigation rules. They should have had nav lights on even if they were not making way. Who knows if they did or didn’t have the lights on. The trials will decide...

 

[rsn48]

Assuming the ego of O'Leary and horsepower reflecting that ego, I'm willing to bet the boat was horsepowered up the yin yang and was zipping along at an excessive rate for the conditions. Kind of like over driving your head lights.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Lots of questions and answers yet to be discussed. I'm NO big O'Leary or those of his ilk fan but how about we allow the investigation to progress and THEN scream our outrage once a finding is published.

 

[BandB]

The tragedy is there were lives lost. No idea how this will turn out. Normally, you'd expect such charges to be followed up with some sort of plea agreement and fine and probation and nothing else ever revealed. However, right now you have one operator charged with a crime and the other just given a ticket. In this case, a conviction of O'Leary sure would fuel the civil suits to follow so there is far more inclination to fight it and go for an acquittal. That would bring out all the findings of the investigation.

 

[78puget-trawler]

I never run at night while pleasure boating, whats the point? Its dangerous, you have other boats, deadheads, huge kelp blobs floating around to foul things up, and sometimes the bane of all boaters existence; gillnetters!
Nope, never run at night unless its a matter of life and death or some other very important situation arises making it necessary.

 

[BandB]

I never run at night while pleasure boating, whats the point? Its dangerous, you have other boats, deadheads, huge kelp blobs floating around to foul things up, and sometimes the bane of all boaters existence; gillnetters!
Nope, never run at night unless its a matter of life and death or some other very important situation arises making it necessary.

We run at night occasionally at sea when covering distances greater than a day, but sure keep a close eye on radar and use night vision. We do not run inlets except a very select few like Port Everglades where it's never dark.

On lakes we didn't do it. 1 time in decades and very slowly and carefully as we got caught out in horrible conditions and when it was decent to run it was dark.