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Old 11-01-2018, 10:07 AM   #21
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The strength of bowlines vs splice is a distinction without a difference IMO. I have bowlines on fairly exposed dock through storms with no problems.

With bowline you can also add smooth interior rubber hose for chafe protection inside the loop as well.
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:11 AM   #22
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Greetings,
Colored ends? That's great if you can remember what the colors represent. Oh my...another list.
Yes, I thought about that. Then I thought red, white and blue, bow, spring, stern. Patriotic has its advantages.

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Old 11-01-2018, 12:38 PM   #23
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The strength of bowlines vs splice is a distinction without a difference IMO. I have bowlines on fairly exposed dock through storms with no problems.

With bowline you can also add smooth interior rubber hose for chafe protection inside the loop as well.
There is a difference between the strength line when comparing a splice vs. a knot. Depending on the source, a bowline can reduce the strength of a line by 25-35%.

Knot Break Strength vs. Rope Break Strength

https://www.mazzellacompanies.com/Ca...e/Efficiencies
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Old 11-01-2018, 12:51 PM   #24
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No he won't. He can just do the same thing you mention only in reverse (unless you tie your line tight around the pole).

A lot harder if there is tension on the line. Best to just do as Hopcar mentioned to begin with.



Fortunately, that is not a situation we run into out here in the West very often. If you can reach the top of the piling to drop a loop over, you won't be able to reach it in a couple hours. If you can't reach the top of the piling, you won't tie a line around the piling because the mussels will slice through the line by the next day.
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Old 11-01-2018, 12:54 PM   #25
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On the last set of transient lines I had made, I had the whipping on the bitter end done in colors to identify line purpose. Wanted all my dock lines the same color.

Yes, based on a suggestion here on TF, I used a different whipping color for my longer transient dock lines to make them easy to spot when grabbing a line.
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:10 PM   #26
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There is a difference between the strength line when comparing a splice vs. a knot. Depending on the source, a bowline can reduce the strength of a line by 25-35%.

Knot Break Strength vs. Rope Break Strength

https://www.mazzellacompanies.com/Ca...e/Efficiencies
I am aware of that but lines don't fail because of knots. The bowline is simply more versatile and useful over time than a sliced loop.
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:14 PM   #27
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No he won't. He can just do the same thing you mention only in reverse (unless you tie your line tight around the pole).
If a spliced loop, nope you are screwed...if bowlines or round turns with half hitches, sure just untie.

I believe what Parks (Hopcar) is describing is dipping a eye.
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:21 PM   #28
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The strength of bowlines vs splice is a distinction without a difference IMO. I have bowlines on fairly exposed dock through storms with no problems.

With bowline you can also add smooth interior rubber hose for chafe protection inside the loop as well.

Or just add chafe protection when you splice the loop.
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Old 11-05-2018, 01:28 PM   #29
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The strength of bowlines vs splice is a distinction without a difference IMO. I have bowlines on fairly exposed dock through storms with no problems.
"All elephants are grey, therefore all things grey must be elephants."

There is absolutely a difference in strength between a splice and a knot. This is irrefutable.

You have not parted a knot and therefore knots have served equally well for your conditions so far. That simply means the knot (bowline) is strong enough for your use. However, it in no way means that knots and splices are equal.
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Old 11-05-2018, 02:56 PM   #30
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don`t know if i need to add much to this, but i`ll add my 2 cents...for our 40fter, i use 5/8" stranded nylon. [same as our anchor line, and easy to splice] bow line should reach to the stern, and v/v, the spring i make about 10 ft shorter, a loop at one end, burn the splice ends, and always burn, and whip the single ends. always have enuf line for both sines, plus spares...when tieing up to a float, if possible, the spring is tied, or thrown first...clyde
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Old 11-05-2018, 04:38 PM   #31
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Ropes/Dock lines?

Whatever you need, Norm at The Rope Store, in Trenton Canada can provide it.

Color, length, eye size can be purchased. He manufacturers.

Norm used to make lines for the big guys and decided he wanted a smaller operation and today supplies lines to boaters.

Good people to deal with.
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Old 11-05-2018, 04:57 PM   #32
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"All elephants are grey, therefore all things grey must be elephants."

There is absolutely a difference in strength between a splice and a knot. This is irrefutable.

You have not parted a knot and therefore knots have served equally well for your conditions so far. That simply means the knot (bowline) is strong enough for your use. However, it in no way means that knots and splices are equal.

That is exactly how I took his comment. While there is a breakingn strength difference in a bowline vs a splice, in his experience that difference in breaking strength has never been enough to affect the performance of the line. Hence, "a distinction without a difference".
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Old 11-05-2018, 06:15 PM   #33
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Just purchased some 7/8th inch double braid lines from Miami Cordage. Very pleased with their price and service. They will splice any eye size you want in the line and you can get in multiple colors or patterns of colors.
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Old 11-05-2018, 07:32 PM   #34
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Just purchased some 7/8th inch double braid lines from Miami Cordage. Very pleased with their price and service. They will splice any eye size you want in the line and you can get in multiple colors or patterns of colors.
My experience with Miami Cordage was most pleasing too. I have used them for 2 boats.
Years ago, I had the great pleasure to meet "the old man". He took me into the back and showed the machines weaving the ropes.
I had 16, 9/16inch, double braid lines, 50ft long with 3 foot eyes, 4 of which had thimbles instead of the eyes, made up and it cost less than $1500. I consider that more than reasonable. Plus they included 2 calendars too. LOL I highly recommend them.
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Old 11-05-2018, 08:32 PM   #35
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I think I paid about $250 for a 600" spool of 5/8" nylon three strand. It is not high quality rope.



You can get a 600' spool of high quality New England Rope 5/8" nylon three stand for about double that. Still a very good bargain.
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:47 PM   #36
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ssobol wrote;
“There is a difference between the strength line when comparing a splice vs. a knot. Depending on the source, a bowline can reduce the strength of a line by 25-35%.”

You are absolutely correct.
But making oversized bowline dock line ends is so inexpensive and easy I don’t see an advantage. Most bow lines run through a chock that probably reduces the tension at the end around a cleat
The strength of bowlines vs splice is a distinction without a difference IMO. I have bowlines on fairly exposed dock through storms with no problems.


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That is exactly how I took his comment. While there is a breakingn strength difference in a bowline vs a splice, in his experience that difference in breaking strength has never been enough to affect the performance of the line. Hence, "a distinction without a difference".
Most of us use oversized dock lines. My smallest is oversized. 1/2” lines are typical for 30’ boats. My stern lines are 5/8”. My bow lines and spring lines are 9/16”. I could use 1/2” for all but w heavier line the “issue” of the bowline being not as strong as a splice is of no consequence.
May not look good at the yacht club but every bit as good otherwise. And I like the option of re-tying them to change the location along the line that bends at the cap rail chocks. I use hose also on my bow line for chafe resistance.
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Old 11-05-2018, 11:31 PM   #37
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I have never heard that term "dipping the line" as was mentioned before, but the technique I've also used before as a courtesy to the other vessel. However I never use 3 strand for dock lines - don't want any stretch like in an anchor line
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Old 11-09-2018, 07:02 AM   #38
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Overnight on board and storm lines may be quite different.

If you need 4 or 6 braided lines about 100ft long, 1 1/4, almost new (one summer) with large spliced in eye , I am in Ft Myers area . 1/3 of new price.
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Old 11-09-2018, 10:49 AM   #39
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I have never heard that term "dipping the line" as was mentioned before, but the technique I've also used before as a courtesy to the other vessel. However I never use 3 strand for dock lines - don't want any stretch like in an anchor line
Docklines are usually nylon, in order to provide stretch and avoid shock loads when conditions deteriorate. Anchor lines also need to have some stretch, so nylon is the most recommended material. If not using a stretchy material for anchoring, a catenary is necessary to provide the shock resistance.

Whether you use 3 strand nylon or braided nylon will not affect the stretch of the nylon, but using a non-stretch material like dacron (usually used for halyards, due to minimal stretch) or dyneema (used for lifting booms, davits, etc, strong but not stretchy) for dock lines is never recommended.

Med mooring often requires tying to a single bollard, so like big ships, yachts end up two to a bollard and "dipping" helps a lot.
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:53 AM   #40
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"When do replace a dock line? How do you know it is unsafe, absent obvious chafing?"


Sunshine and air make lines age stiffer and stiffer.


When it becomes hard to bend on a cleat , or stays bent after removal, or shreds pieces in your hands when coiling,, its time to donate it to a sailor to make baggywrinkle.
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