Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-10-2017, 07:31 AM   #1
Guru
 
North Baltic sea's Avatar
 
Country: Finland
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 762
Pilot boat accident

hi,

Sad and mystic about what happened when a truly seaworthy self-correcting Hull pilot boat capsizes and two died. Wave only about 6 feet, which is often the open coast of the sea. The pilot skipper relied on his boat in absolute terms because of the much higher sea and years of experience. It is fearful to think that it is too much confidence in your own ship as it has always succeeded in the high sea and yet this sad accident proves that the damage can happen...

NBs

https://www.maritime-executive.com/a...-boat-capsizes










Have you ever suspected at sea that your boat could fail?
__________________
Advertisement

North Baltic sea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 10:56 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
City: New York
Country: USA
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 235
If a vessel is specified as self righting, what conditions would cause it to remain overturned? RIP crew...
__________________

Genecop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 11:02 AM   #3
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genecop View Post
If a vessel is specified as self righting, what conditions would cause it to remain overturned? RIP crew...
Just a guess...open doors and/or broken windows?
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 01:23 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
City: New York
Country: USA
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayM View Post
Just a guess...open doors and/or broken windows?
Thanks Murray, that makes sense, I guess I just assumed that if conditions warranted it doors would have been locked down and windows in that category of boat would be bullet proof.
But it must be something like that because if the compartment was watertight, and the boat was built to self right...water intrusion could be the only cause....
Whatever the case , just a terrible tragedy...
Genecop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 02:11 PM   #5
Guru
 
Benthic2's Avatar
 
City: Boston Area
Country: United States
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,265
I was surprised that it took the divers 8 hours to search the hull....and the guys were indeed inside. I suppose you wouldn't live long in those water temps, so maybe it wouldn't have made a difference.
Benthic2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 04:03 PM   #6
GFC
Guru
 
GFC's Avatar
 
City: Tri Cities, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Beachcomber
Vessel Model: Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic2 View Post
I was surprised that it took the divers 8 hours to search the hull....and the guys were indeed inside. .
From the article linked to above....
"The responders attempted to right the boat, but it sank during the righting evolution. After the sinking, divers searched the interior and found two bodies. "

Sad, but it draws attention to the hazards of a very hazardous occupation.
__________________
Mike and Tina
Beachcomber 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
GFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 04:44 PM   #7
Guru
 
Fletcher500's Avatar
 
City: So-Cal
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Chelsea Rose
Vessel Model: Helmsman 43 PH
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 813
Yes, a well paid but potentially dangerous job. I am surprised more are not hurt or killed Climbing the ladder, especially in the PNW.
Fletcher500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 05:21 PM   #8
Guru
 
AlaskaProf's Avatar
 
City: Tacoma, WA & Ashland, OR
Country: US of A
Vessel Name: SEEADLER
Vessel Model: RAWSON 41
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher500 View Post
Yes, a well paid but potentially dangerous job. I am surprised more are not hurt or killed Climbing the ladder, especially in the PNW.
It does happen. They've lost one at Port Angeles and another at Homer in recent memory, IIRC.

The Columbia Bar pilots are helicoptered when visibility (not much!) is sufficient.

The TOTE ro-ro I sailed in had a second master who was a fully-qualified Cook Inlet pilot. He worked about 16 hours in each 8 day cycle; spent a lot of time in the gym. They'd found the transfer at Homer to be too hazardous and too uncertain.

A google of "harbor pilot fatality" is pretty sobering.
AlaskaProf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 06:49 PM   #9
Guru
 
Benthic2's Avatar
 
City: Boston Area
Country: United States
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,265
How do you become a pilot ? If you regularly sail from port A to port B, do you eventually not need a pilot once you have done the run enough times ??
Benthic2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 07:58 PM   #10
Guru
 
AlaskaProf's Avatar
 
City: Tacoma, WA & Ashland, OR
Country: US of A
Vessel Name: SEEADLER
Vessel Model: RAWSON 41
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic2 View Post
How do you become a pilot ? If you regularly sail from port A to port B, do you eventually not need a pilot once you have done the run enough times ??
There are probably folks on here that know more about this than I, but I believe it to be an insurance-driven requirement. The pilots for a given port or waterway form their own association and experience requirements, and I can only guess at the insurance coverage they carry and premiums they pay.

When I sailed from Anchorage to Tacoma in the Northern Lights, we took on a pilot and apprentice at Port Angeles (recall, we already had an idle Cook Inlet pilot on board). The apprentice was a 50-something guy with an "all vessels, all oceans" ticket who was required to do a hundred supervised passages (I think it was at least that) before the Puget Sound Pilots would accept him.
AlaskaProf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 08:25 PM   #11
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 15,143
The skeptic I often am, I've never been comfortable with the two terms, "Unsinkable" and "Self Righting." To me they are indicators but not guarantees as the tests are done in structured conditions and situations. I've seen people talk about it too often as if it's an absolute.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 08:30 PM   #12
Guru
 
Fletcher500's Avatar
 
City: So-Cal
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Chelsea Rose
Vessel Model: Helmsman 43 PH
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic2 View Post
How do you become a pilot ? If you regularly sail from port A to port B, do you eventually not need a pilot once you have done the run enough times ??
I think I know the answers to your question, but There are people on here who currently sail on Unlimted HP/Tonnage Licenses that can answer this much more accurately than me.

I was a Snipe, but a Deck classmate has been a Port Pilot in Long Beach for 25 years. I can tell you he loves it, makes great money, and has a lot of time off in between shifts.

Very coveted jobs and hard to get. I know someone who just got on the short list for WA or Oregon (forgot) after being on the list for many years.
Fletcher500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 10:00 PM   #13
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
The skeptic I often am, I've never been comfortable with the two terms, "Unsinkable" and "Self Righting." To me they are indicators but not guarantees as the tests are done in structured conditions and situations. I've seen people talk about it too often as if it's an absolute.
I am a volunteer member of the Saltspring Island RCMSAR. Our rescue vessel is a 29' "self righting" RIB built locally by Titan in Sidney, BC.

In the very unlikely event of a capsize, we have trained on a SOP for righting the boat. There is a "radar arch" that carries an inflatable tube, about 18" in diameter, when inflated, and wider than the boat. Deflated, it disappears into the top of the arch. The SOP requires the crew to assemble well to the stern of the boat, at the end of a rope attached to the transom. One person then pulls the lanyard that inflates the tube, which very quickly lifts the stern of the boat and gravity does the rest, to flip it over.

If the crew of the Pilot boat were not accounted for, righting the boat could not be done, as that might cause injury or death to anyone trapped inside.
__________________
Keith
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 11:55 PM   #14
Guru
 
North Baltic sea's Avatar
 
Country: Finland
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 762
Hi,

The ship is still lying on the sea, lifted this week when the wave is slightly smaller. This is done by an official wide-ranging investigation and here they are open to everyone and I can tell you later what caused this injury.

I wonder if I got some water in, the engines, the sea cook, the saft seal or ...

The 6 foot wave does not think I still hit the windows or the door like a small spray that the pump could handle and according to the regulations the skipper would have announced VHF connection to the security control center but this the damage occurred quickly and surprised no VHF connection.

On these ships, they ship daily several times on boats all over here, as long as there is no ice. Ice in the water has heavier boats that can safely travel. The accident in the area of ​​the surf can at worst be about 16 feet and the single largest wave about 30 feet and the same vessel type used here in the area where the wave may be about 26/50 feet. This makes this so weird that the ship crashes in a 6-foot wave.

Sister boat video


NBs
North Baltic sea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 12:14 AM   #15
Guru
 
North Baltic sea's Avatar
 
Country: Finland
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 762
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
The skeptic I often am, I've never been comfortable with the two terms, "Unsinkable" and "Self Righting." To me they are indicators but not guarantees as the tests are done in structured conditions and situations. I've seen people talk about it too often as if it's an absolute.
Hi,

Mostly I thought of "absolute" trusting the same as I actually go to the sea, so the idea is to get out of the way and trust my own ship.

Every time I've been in worse weather than previously will increase confidence in the boat to survive even worse sea conditions and this creates an interesting false confidence that can, at worst, to pay for a man's life, because you can not know where the limit is reached.

Fortunately, an amusement as a boater can decide to make a trip, but I believe the pilots will always leave the sea regardless of the weather, when a big ship arrives to our coast and has a tight schedule.

I would think that if you go out to the sea at 6 feet or other feet, your boat will be "absolutely" otherwise you would hardly dare to Cruise?

Nbs
North Baltic sea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 12:16 AM   #16
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 8,729
Where does "6ft wave" come from?
The report says "The Border Guard reported that heavy swells at the site created a challenge for the response team".
That sounds like more than "6ft". Whatever happened is not explained yet. The sister ship video taken alongside "Brilliance OTS" suggests a seaworthy boat.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 12:33 AM   #17
Guru
 
North Baltic sea's Avatar
 
Country: Finland
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 762
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaProf View Post
There are probably folks on here that know more about this than I, but I believe it to be an insurance-driven requirement. The pilots for a given port or waterway form their own association and experience requirements, and I can only guess at the insurance coverage they carry and premiums they pay.

When I sailed from Anchorage to Tacoma in the Northern Lights, we took on a pilot and apprentice at Port Angeles (recall, we already had an idle Cook Inlet pilot on board). The apprentice was a 50-something guy with an "all vessels, all oceans" ticket who was required to do a hundred supervised passages (I think it was at least that) before the Puget Sound Pilots would accept him.
Hi,

In Finland, the official pilot job started on September 19.9.1696 and before that more informally, much earlier. Here the legislation obliges the ships to use a pilot (Almost always)on arrival in Finland, precise locations defined when the ship can not proceed without pilotage. This is because of our cramped passageways in the archipelago and rocky waters.

Below the picture front page is an illustration of starting a pilot business in Finland.

NBs



North Baltic sea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 05:06 AM   #18
Guru
 
North Baltic sea's Avatar
 
Country: Finland
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 762
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
Where does "6ft wave" come from?
The report says "The Border Guard reported that heavy swells at the site created a challenge for the response team".
That sounds like more than "6ft". Whatever happened is not explained yet. The sister ship video taken alongside "Brilliance OTS" suggests a seaworthy boat.
Hi

below the data wave buoy that measures the wave height is very close to the damage points. The accident occurred at 8.12.2017 at 16.58 and considering the data the prevailing wave height of about 1.7 meters, or about 5.6 feet. The wind direction was SW, there is no news yet for the big ship course and piloted the boat course.


And yelow papers news

"The weather in the area is ferocious, the wind has been between 11 and 14 meters per second during the rescue work, and 16 meters per second in the gust, the temperature has stayed about four degrees above the plus side, and the seawater is 2-4 degrees, with a significant wave height in the area, ie nearly two-meter waves are possible. "




NBs
North Baltic sea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 07:59 AM   #19
Guru
 
North Baltic sea's Avatar
 
Country: Finland
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 762
Hi,


the pilot boat was lifted today to the surface and moved up to earth for research. There was no news yet for any reason leading to the damage.


I update when the cause of the accident is reported...


NBs


I noticed a strange thing, the top half wave height image seems to be updating itself, I have never seen this before?


North Baltic sea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 12:21 PM   #20
Guru
 
Pgitug's Avatar
 
City: Punta Gorda, fl
Country: Usa
Vessel Name: Escapade
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37 2002
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,118
Itís sounds funny that they tried to bring the vessel upright before looking for survivors in the hull.
__________________

Pgitug is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012