Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-11-2019, 05:07 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
Knot Fast's Avatar
 
City: St Petersburg
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Knot Fast
Vessel Model: Great Harbour GH37
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 89
Man Over Board

Man Over Board

It was a quiet Saturday night in the Marina. Then a neighbor’s Sea Ray (why always a Sea Ray?) returned to their slip in high (10 gust 20 knot) winds. The Sea Ray banged into his adjacent neighbor and took 10 minutes to secure the first 3 lines because it was dark and they were unprepared. I tried to assist, but the Sea Ray owner seemed very stoic and non-communicative. When 3 lines were secured, I returned to my boat. The adjacent neighbor asked for the Sea Ray’s insurance info…

About 30 minutes later I heard a splash. At first I thought, “…now these guys have dropped something in the water…”. A minute later it occurred to me that with those guys, it could be anything, so I go back on the dock to investigate. I find two 40 yo guys (the “Friends”, one is the Sea Ray owner) on the Sea Ray swim platform, trying to pull another guy (the “Big Guy”) out of the water. Big Guy had fallen in while moving from the boat to the pier. I watched their recovery efforts for about 30 seconds and realized something was wrong – none of them were talking and none of them were moving. The swim platform had a ladder but it was covered with toys lashed to the platform and could not be deployed. The toys made the footing bad for the friends. There was no room on the platform. The Friends where fully bent over and each had one of Big Guy’s arms; Big Guy’s head was above the water. I grabbed a life ring with rope and tossed it next to Big Guy in the water; I asked “what can I do to help”. A Friend on the swim platform said to Big Guy “come on man, kick, you’re really heavy”. No answer from Big Guy. Still, no body was moving – it was like a frozen callisthenic exercise. At about the 120 second mark of my arrival I switched to action mode and started yelling loud “Help!, Help!, Help!” And just kept yelling until neighbors started showing up. Another neighbor and I laid down on the finger pier and grabbed the big guy’s belt and pulled him more out of the water while his friends pulled him onto the swim platform. That worked! It turned out Big Guy weighed about 270# and was super-fit. Think football player…

At this point, about 10 neighbors were on the dock. The Friends assisted Big Guy onto the finger pier and he collapsed and almost went in to the water again. Big Guy could not stand; he crawled with assistance from the finger to the main dock where he tried to stand and fell down. He was too large and too slippery to properly assist. At that point I took over. I said keep him down on the dock so he does not fall. And I called 911. Though the “Friends” said “he’s ok”, my neighbors immediately formed a chorus of “keep him down on the dock” while I made the call. Neighbors brought Big Guy a blanket and pillow. One neighbor noted he was rubbing his head a lot and suggested he may have hit it on entering the water. Big Guy repeatedly tried to get up but could not. When paramedics arrived, Big Guy could not state his name and said the year was 2020. The paramedics pronounced him very drunk and transported him to the hospital.

Lessons learned:
1. (obvious) don’t drink and boat
2. Anyone could slip, hit their head, fall into the water, and be unable to get out under their own power
3. It is VERY DIFFICULT to pull someone out of the water. It took 4 guys to pull ~270#, so maybe 70#/per guy. Most women can pull less.
A. I probably cannot pull my beloved, light-weight girlfriend out of the water (though I would probably die trying…)
B. There is no chance gf can pull me out of the water
C. A. & B. are unacceptable
4. Keep you swim platform clear and your ladder deployable from the water

I plan to install a Lifesling to add to our safety equipment. My boat has a dinghy crane who’s top is 15’ above the water line and seems well situated for use with Lifesling. Anyone have experience with a better product? [I read the thread "Anyone have a Lifesling?"] When gf and I cruise, we will practice using it for each of us (in warm calm water).

Be careful out there…
__________________
Advertisement

Knot Fast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2019, 05:36 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Solly's Avatar
 
City: Solomons MD.
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sun Runner
Vessel Model: 1985 Mainship 34 Trawler MK III
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 125
Well done !
__________________

Solly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2019, 05:53 PM   #3
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,819
Not the first story I’ve heard like that involving an overboard who was heavy and unable to help himself. Imagine if he didn’t even have any one of his two shloshed buddies, a swim platform or your immediate response. That guy should be thanking his lucky stars (and you) that he’ll live to drink again!
__________________
Larry

"When life gets hard, eat marshmallows”.
healhustler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2019, 06:43 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Soo-Valley's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Islands
Country: canada
Vessel Name: Soo Valley
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 241
overboard. In the PNW the water temp is such that speed in recovery is important. Time is of the essence for recovery.

I chuckle at the requirement to have a boarding ladder as I wonder if I or others would be able to climb out after 5 minutes without a drysuit.
A sling (purchased or quickly made) is good if you can get the victim to put it on and remain with arms down to keep it from being pulled off while hoisting. You also must have a means to hoist such as needed to hoist a dingy.
Some of these ideas must have originated in warmer waters.

We were taught to use the dinghy to first get victim out of water and then from there to main boat, you have more time. Inflatables work better at not tipping over. If your dink is on davits, leave it there if you have to pull someone in.

This only works if I am not the one in the water.

A quick sling can be made with a long rope. Take the end and at arms length or slightly more double it. Then take loop end around your back and make a bowline with the loop end. Can be used just under arms or one part can be slipped down behind knees.
Soo-Valley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2019, 07:10 PM   #5
Guru
 
Lou_tribal's Avatar
 
City: Quebec
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Bleuvet
Vessel Model: Custom Built
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,521
This is the kind of event where you take a seat, a cigar, a bag of chips and a glass of 20 years old cognac and watch Darwin at work...

L
Lou_tribal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2019, 07:20 PM   #6
Guru
 
Lepke's Avatar
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Country: US
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,640
Don't remember where the pic came from, but I wonder if the captain knows he's lost someone.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	party-boat.jpg
Views:	66
Size:	30.1 KB
ID:	96309  
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2019, 01:00 AM   #7
Guru
 
City: Anacortes
Country: USA
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 794
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soo-Valley View Post
overboard. In the PNW the water temp is such that speed in recovery is important. Time is of the essence for recovery.



I chuckle at the requirement to have a boarding ladder as I wonder if I or others would be able to climb out after 5 minutes without a drysuit.

A sling (purchased or quickly made) is good if you can get the victim to put it on and remain with arms down to keep it from being pulled off while hoisting. You also must have a means to hoist such as needed to hoist a dingy.

Some of these ideas must have originated in warmer waters.



We were taught to use the dinghy to first get victim out of water and then from there to main boat, you have more time. Inflatables work better at not tipping over. If your dink is on davits, leave it there if you have to pull someone in.



This only works if I am not the one in the water.



A quick sling can be made with a long rope. Take the end and at arms length or slightly more double it. Then take loop end around your back and make a bowline with the loop end. Can be used just under arms or one part can be slipped down behind knees.


I wouldn’t fart around, but you should have much more than 5 minutes in Puget Sound temps (50 degrees). Probably. I’ve been in many times for a lot longer than 5 minutes without dry suit. When you gotta clean a prop, that’s what you do. Heck, I had to rescue my single screw from a crab line one day while sick with the flu. Not fun, but doable. Of course, I and many here are not as young as we once were. The biggest risk is the shock from the initial plunge and risking the heart attack. Not being able to self deploy a ladder is a huge risk.
ghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2019, 01:10 AM   #8
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,972
The biggest risk is the Gasp Reflex. If you fall into cold water when your head goes in first, you naturally gasp and inhale water. That is usually the end. Wearing PFDs on and around the boat is the simple solution.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2019, 01:10 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Soo-Valley's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Islands
Country: canada
Vessel Name: Soo Valley
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost View Post
I wouldn’t fart around, but you should have much more than 5 minutes in Puget Sound temps (50 degrees). Probably. I’ve been in many times for a lot longer than 5 minutes without dry suit. When you gotta clean a prop, that’s what you do. Heck, I had to rescue my single screw from a crab line one day while sick with the flu. Not fun, but doable. Of course, I and many here are not as young as we once were. The biggest risk is the shock from the initial plunge and risking the heart attack. Not being able to self deploy a ladder is a huge risk.
To rephrase. after 5 minutes you lose physical strength and even with a ladder may not be able to climb out since chances are you are fully clothed and now carry additional weight.

Quote from worksafe
Initial immersion, or cold shock — Symptoms include a significant increase in heart rate and blood pressure and difficulty breathing. Stage 1 typically results from a sudden and unexpected immersion and can lead to drowning in a few minutes.
Short-term immersion, or swimming failure — Symptoms include a loss of body heat, shutdown of extremities, and loss of coordination. Stage 2 typically happens after increased effort in the water, which exposes more surface area and increased cooling. This can lead to drowning in between 3 and 30 minutes.
Long-term immersion, or hypothermia — Symptoms include core cooling of the body and semi-consciousness. Stage 3 can lead to heart failure or drowning as a cooling body temperature depresses the person's instinctive willingness to fight, making water ingestion more likely.
Post-rescue collapse — Symptoms include an excessive drop in blood pressure. Stage 4 can lead to brain or heart failure, even many hours after exiting the water.
Soo-Valley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2019, 01:18 AM   #10
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,972
Our swim platform ladder folds up onto the platform and is fairly heavy. I was not sure that it would be deployable from the water. I spliced a line onto the ladder. Put some Sunbrella strap around the end and put a snap on the edge of the platform so it will always be in place if needed.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	4A3C1F5D-79BC-4D0A-87ED-A11CD86B2964.jpg
Views:	44
Size:	59.7 KB
ID:	96338   Click image for larger version

Name:	ADE6B0C5-BD8B-4F3E-B6EF-088A96AB9903.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	73.7 KB
ID:	96339  
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2019, 01:37 AM   #11
Veteran Member
 
City: New Orleans
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Czech Mate
Vessel Model: President 41
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 65
It was covered a little in the previous post, but basically cold water shock can immediately lead to death in a healthy individual. Either by instantly paralyzing muscles and/or lead to heart attack.

BTW 15 C = 60 F eh

https://aceboater.com/en/cold-water-...toms-treatment
jsplichal2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 01:40 PM   #12
Al
Guru
 
Al's Avatar
 
City: ketchikan, Alaska
Country: usa
Vessel Name: 'SLO'~BELLE
Vessel Model: 1978 Marben-27' Flybridge Trawler(extended to 30 feet) Pilothouse Pocket Cruiser[
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,996
man over board

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soo-Valley View Post
overboard. In the PNW the water temp is such that speed in recovery is important. Time is of the essence for recovery.

I chuckle at the requirement to have a boarding ladder as I wonder if I or others would be able to climb out after 5 minutes without a drysuit.
A sling (purchased or quickly made) is good if you can get the victim to put it on and remain with arms down to keep it from being pulled off while hoisting. You also must have a means to hoist such as needed to hoist a dingy.
Some of these ideas must have originated in warmer waters.

We were taught to use the dinghy to first get victim out of water and then from there to main boat, you have more time. Inflatables work better at not tipping over. If your dink is on davits, leave it there if you have to pull someone in.

This only works if I am not the one in the water.

A quick sling can be made with a long rope. Take the end and at arms length or slightly more double it. Then take loop end around your back and make a bowline with the loop end. Can be used just under arms or one part can be slipped down behind knees.


I had posted before my concern on being able to address a 'Man over Board' issue.
I agree, the access ladder has to be a position to deploy at all times. On our boat it is situated to fall overboard into position on the Stb.side of the swim step. It is a swing ladder model. Above it directly, is a circle boldt that is large enough to receive my four part block and tackle(I think that is what it is!) that is used to lift our 10' hard bottom inflatatble into its travel stance on the Weaver system attached to the step. On the extra line area hanging at shoulder height, is a prepared loop line for the purpose of placing under the arms and securing to the tack hook
Above on its own overhead bolt above the dropped down ladder and ajacent to the block and tackle deployment, is a knoted hand line that is coiled and bunged.
The drill would be to move the overboard participant to the dropped step ladder, . uncoil the knotted hand line to hold, to as i reposition the block and tackle.then place the loop line around the OB subject. Will i be able to haul a 200# soul out of the water?
I am not sure as the occasion or testing event has not happened, given a reason to be in the water, like a warm day or the foulded wheel issue, then I will or next summer purposely plan on doing so.
So for now, this is an academic response to the subject.
I do believe that keeping a person in less peril will be the result.
A bit long in explanation for that i apologies,

In addition to this subject the need for harbors to provide exit ladders placed in strategic locations within the mooring fingers should be a paramount necessity. a subject that I have mentioned to members of our local public harbor board. cost seems to be the issue where as the thought of a good liability lawyer making a small fortune with a large cost to the city seems to skip the thinking process.
Al-Ketchikan
Al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 01:49 PM   #13
Al
Guru
 
Al's Avatar
 
City: ketchikan, Alaska
Country: usa
Vessel Name: 'SLO'~BELLE
Vessel Model: 1978 Marben-27' Flybridge Trawler(extended to 30 feet) Pilothouse Pocket Cruiser[
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,996
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
Our swim platform ladder folds up onto the platform and is fairly heavy. I was not sure that it would be deployable from the water. I spliced a line onto the ladder. Put some Sunbrella strap around the end and put a snap on the edge of the platform so it will always be in place if needed.
Great simple thought!!! We have the same model of ladder. This will be added tomorrow on my return to our home port. Thanks for posting
Al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 04:27 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Boat's Avatar
 
City: SchoolHouse Branch
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
Don't remember where the pic came from, but I wonder if the captain knows he's lost someone.
Awesomely cool picture.

When I was a kid, swimming came a little too easy for me. I got careless one cold day and went into the water with a coat, sweater, boots, etc. The wetted weight almost got the best of me. The clothes will come off immediately if anything like that happens again.

Alcohol consumption is pretty rare for me these days. But, drunk, cold, weighted down with clothes, overboard, bad odds, deathly bad odds. Even a strong swimmer.


Cold, wet, heavy clothes, climbing a ladder? Bad odds.


I read the book, Suddenly Overboard, from a recommendation on this forum. I'll read it again. Gave away one copy, bought another.
Boat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 06:35 PM   #15
Guru
 
HopCar's Avatar
 
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,410
I’ve always liked ladders that mount under the platform. They are very easy to deploy from in the water even if there is a bunch of junk on the platform.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Parks Masterson
HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 06:53 PM   #16
GFC
Guru
 
GFC's Avatar
 
City: Tri Cities, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Beachcomber
Vessel Model: Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,691
Our ladder is like the one Parks pictured. It works well and is easy to deploy.

I question the numbers regarding survival time in cold water temps. We got a line caught in both props one night. In October. In 53* water. Naturally I did not have a wet suit or mask or fins on board. (I do now!)

I spent just over 35 minutes beneath the boat with a Maglite between my legs and a steak knife in my teeth. I'd come up under the swim platform, take a couple of breaths then go back under the water and do more line cutting.

When I got the line cleared from the props I climbed back on board, fired up the boat, pulled the anchor and was able to dock the boat. Cold? Yes. Hypothermic? No Incapable of doing complicated tasks like backing down a fairway then backing into the slip at night? Nope.
__________________
Mike and Tina
Beachcomber 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
GFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 07:34 PM   #17
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: AICW
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 20,133
for reference......


not absolutes...different people, ages, body mass, etc....all effect the times.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	3458e2912a6f9e8f918f3ded2d0a4e2a.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	37.4 KB
ID:	96563  
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 07:41 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Soo-Valley's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Islands
Country: canada
Vessel Name: Soo Valley
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by GFC View Post
Our ladder is like the one Parks pictured. It works well and is easy to deploy.

I question the numbers regarding survival time in cold water temps. We got a line caught in both props one night. In October. In 53* water. Naturally I did not have a wet suit or mask or fins on board. (I do now!)

I spent just over 35 minutes beneath the boat with a Maglite between my legs and a steak knife in my teeth. I'd come up under the swim platform, take a couple of breaths then go back under the water and do more line cutting.

When I got the line cleared from the props I climbed back on board, fired up the boat, pulled the anchor and was able to dock the boat. Cold? Yes. Hypothermic? No Incapable of doing complicated tasks like backing down a fairway then backing into the slip at night? Nope.
Glad to hear you were not a part of the statistics. There is always an exception to the rule.
Soo-Valley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 08:16 PM   #19
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by GFC View Post
Our ladder is like the one Parks pictured. It works well and is easy to deploy.

I question the numbers regarding survival time in cold water temps. We got a line caught in both props one night. In October. In 53* water. Naturally I did not have a wet suit or mask or fins on board. (I do now!)

I spent just over 35 minutes beneath the boat with a Maglite between my legs and a steak knife in my teeth. I'd come up under the swim platform, take a couple of breaths then go back under the water and do more line cutting.

When I got the line cleared from the props I climbed back on board, fired up the boat, pulled the anchor and was able to dock the boat. Cold? Yes. Hypothermic? No Incapable of doing complicated tasks like backing down a fairway then backing into the slip at night? Nope.
Mike, you are one of the lucky ones. You have insulation where some of us only wish.
In a Laser race this past summer, I was in the water (Long Harbour, Saltspring Island) in water that was a little bit warmer than your 53° for about the same length of time. I denied hypothermia at first, but after my rescuers talked to me for a while I was convinced that it was real.
__________________
Keith
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 11:08 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
City: Tampa, FL
Country: USA
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
I’ve always liked ladders that mount under the platform. They are very easy to deploy from in the water even if there is a bunch of junk on the platform.
I have always avoided them because, even though they are obviously easy to deploy from in the water, it looks like it would be a huge pain to pull them up and secure them from on the platform.
__________________

denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×